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Well, the number of ways you could build an Operative with the Battleflower archetype is pretty huge, so first there is need for some more specification. What does your friend / acquaintance want the build to do? What should it envision? And what do they want from the Battleflower archetype, as it only has optional trades including a feat choice at level 2.
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If you're going to be in melee str operative (especialy the new one from interstellar species) is a fun and different way to go.
The nice thing about battleflower as an archetype is that the swaps are optional, so if you like your operative exploits better you take those.
Level 2: Battleflower training for a strength/ melee operative advanced weapon training to pick up weapon proficiency and specilization in advanced melee is amazing: two feats for one exploit. The EAC weapons tend to be advanced, and you want EAC weapons because the bonus to hit with a bunch of d8s outweighs the difference between a d4 and a d6
Level 6 Acrobatic grace is niche but really good when it comes up if you have no social skills.
1 Feat Weapon focus (whatever you hit people with)
2 Battleflower thingy Advanced weapon prof
3 Feat Mobility (free weapon spec. kicks in)
4 Uncanny mobility
5 Toughness ?
6 Acrobatics to make friends
7 Spring attack
Gear: Putting the throwing fusion on your weapon gives you a lot of reach and versatility if you cant get into melee
If you're going to be in melee str operative (especialy the new one from interstellar species) is a fun and different way to go.
The nice thing about battleflower as an archetype is that the swaps are optional, so if you like your operative exploits better you take those.
Level 2: Battleflower training for a strength/ melee operative advanced weapon training to pick up weapon proficiency and specilization in advanced melee is amazing: two feats for one exploit. The EAC weapons tend to be advanced, and you want EAC weapons because the bonus to hit with a bunch of d8s outweighs the difference between a d4 and a d6
Level 6 Acrobatic grace is niche but really good when it comes up if you have no social skills.
1 Feat Weapon focus (whatever you hit people with)
2 Battleflower thingy Advanced weapon prof
3 Feat Mobility (free weapon spec. kicks in)
4 Uncanny mobility
5 Toughness ?
6 Acrobatics to make friends
7 Spring attackGear: Putting the throwing fusion on your weapon gives you a lot of reach and versatility if you cant get into melee
Would that work with DEX too?
And maybe unarmed strike?
It works well enough, but for a dex operative i have a very hard time finding any reason to be in melee, ever. EAC pistols work just as well, aren't as feat instensive, and you're not getting punched in the face ( My murdermouse muscle operative just got punched in the face a LOT last scenario...)
A muscle operative makes triple attacking with a natural weapon *very easily available thanks to species grafts) at least a viable option. Without that there's no reason to use unarmed strike really. You're doing meh damage and attacking KAC instead of EAC, while standing directly in front of the big sharp pointy teeth. There just seem to be downsides instead of uprisdes to a dex operative punching things.
Note: You don't have to have the alternative class feature to make a muscle operative. On Murdermouse I dipped a level of Blitz soldier for the proficiency, movement, resolve, init bonus, and free improved unarmed strike from Ascetic warrior. With a whip and dagger out she can sneak attack or take AOOs as needed.
So an operative with high DEX, the 2nd level battleflower specialization for IUS and death strike, giving IUS the operative weapon trait would not make enough damage with trick attack?
I mean i can see how pistols are kind of better, because they are ranged weapons, but the question is more would a DEX build with IUS utterly fail or be playable?
Or better use a melee weapon?
Or avoid melee at all best?
Well, that's a point i don't really understand.
With "Death Strike" operative exploit IUS is effectively a weapon with the operative trait, meaning it uses DEX to hit. Not missing out on STR there.
Seems like weapons are overall better then?
If you build for unarmed with modest character resources you can do decent damage that is definitely less than if you’d sunk 1/3 of your wealth in a top level melee weapon that takes up hands and probably costs yet more money in fusions.
Which of these is better depends on your goals and aesthetic preferences.
So [for] an operative with high DEX, the 2nd level battleflower specialization for IUS and death strike, giving IUS the operative weapon trait would not make enough damage with trick attack?
The battle-flower specialization does not help you.
-IUS does not give you proficiency with a weapon, so the battle-flower clause doesn't apply
-Unarmed strike is a basic melee weapon, so technicalities aside, an operative is ALREADY specialized in it at third level.
- If you are taking death strike, you will very likely have a natural weapon, either from your species or as a graft. The graft is a grand and fits on 3 different body parts, there's no way you cant fit that into your build. The graft gives you the 1.5 x level specialization (the highest in the game) reduced down to 1x when using it as an operative weapon when trick attacking.
-battleflower archetype swaps are optional. operative exploits are REALLY good. Don't swap out unless you REALLY like what you're getting
Feats are kinda meh usually you probably have enough of them. When you get proficiency and specilization for one class ability that's a good swap, but you would be gaining absolutely nothing by taking proficiency and only a feat by taking improved unarmed strike.
I mean i can see how pistols are kind of better, because they are ranged weapons, but the question is more would a DEX build with IUS utterly fail or be playable?
A dex build operative kicking people in the face is sub optimal but playable. You're trading a fair chunk of hit and the ability to apply fusions for half your level+a scooch more to damage.
A dex build operative trying to triple attack all the time is pretty close to ineffective.
Both of those are mitigated a LOT by pumping strength. The cost is to your acrobatics, stealth, and AC. Stealth is pretty cheap to mitigate (chameleon skin) , and you will be hit in the face. A lot. Regardless of your AC.
Or better use a melee weapon?
Or avoid melee at all best?
If you go strength you gain damage but lose acrobatics and AC.
If you go dex I can find NO reason to be in melee.Remember with an operative weapon you are stuck with the 1/2 level damage, but you can choose whether to use dex or strength for your attack roll.
Well, that's a point i don't really understand.
With "Death Strike" operative exploit IUS is effectively a weapon with the operative trait, meaning it uses DEX to hit. Not missing out on STR there.
Seems like weapons are overall better then?
meaning it CAN use dex to hit. Not has to.
Alright, that makes it clearer. Thanks.
Are any of the alternate class features good?
Alright, that makes it clearer. Thanks.
Are any of the alternate class features good?
If you're a muscle operative or really want to flank picking up proficiency and specialization in advanced melee weapons for one class feat is pretty good. Actually thats one advantage to melee i hadn't considered much , you can flank and give a flank bonus.
Acrobatic grace is good if you do a lot of first contact. It is REALLY situational though.
Society scenarios and adventures don't always call out what kind of diplomacy check you're making: ad hoc checks abound, and some people are a stickler for to change an attitude meaning only the whole friendly/
At that level having comprehend language or a tetrad translator is probably a given, and tongues isn't far off.
Fascinate breaks in a stiff wind. I don't think i'd consider the other half of the ability worth much.
Stunning strike isn't terrible, but there are a lot of things immune to it, and starfinder critters have really good saves. On the other hand, stunned is almost dead to a lot of humanoid NPCs: you lose a turn and then need to spend an action reclaiming your gear off the ground.
Balanced scales is amazeballs. Past 12 the DCs for tumbling start getting pretty high and operatives edge just isn't cutting it anymore.
Uncanny initiative is whatever is better than amazeballs. I'm going first ok thanksbye.