Is there any way you can cast more than 4 spells per level as a sorcerer? The primal sorcerer looks appealing as a blaster. Could I get some feedback on a build that was given to me? It's been so long I know longer know how it works:
Class Feats:
2- Druid Dedication
4- Order Spell
5- Dangerous Sorcery (via Ancestry feat)
6- Basic Druid Spellcasting
8- Primal Breadth
10- Greater Bloodline
12- Expert Druid Spellcasting
14- Bloodline Focus
16- Effortless Concentration
18- Master Druid Spellcasting
20- Bloodline Perfection
I have a couple questions and I apologize for my noobery, why would you get Basic Druid spellcasting when you can already cast Primal spells? Also why Primal Breadth and Expert Druid spellcasting? If this is strange, what would you recommend instead?
Basic/Expert/Master Druid Spellcasting and Primal Breadth == more Primal Spell Slots...
The reason you want the extra Druid slots is because you have already got the Primal Tradition you continue to use your existing Sorcerer class skill and Charisma to cast those spells as well. You keep the same DC. Whereas if you went another tradition you wouldn't get all that.
Want you miss is the variety of those spells. There are a fair number of spells that don't care about your Spell DC. It is a trade off.
The other reason for the Druid is the Order Spell which is likely a damage spell that you get back on a ten minute rest. Whether that is a good idea or not depends on your sorcerer bloodline power and how useful it is.
If you just want a lot of spells and slots this is an OK build.
If this is strange, what would you recommend instead?
What Sorcerer Bloodline? I mean all 4 are worth playing. Which Druid Order do you have in mind?
You can pick up an extra specific slot like a summon spell from Primal Evolution or whatever that feat is called.
You should pick very good focus spells. Sorcerer focus spells supplement their regular casting. I would study the focus spells you'll get as you advance and how that will fit into your spell attack combinations.
I would not do the druid dedication myself as I find the sorcerer has a lot of really attractive class feats if you have good focus spells. If you find the build interesting, then give it a shot.
If this is strange, what would you recommend instead?What Sorcerer Bloodline? I mean all 4 are worth playing. Which Druid Order do you have in mind?
This was for the Storm order. I think the idea was to be a blaster. Statistics were:
Gutsy Halfling.
Str 8, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 18
1st level Ancestry feat: Halfing Luck
Bloodline: Elemental (Fire)
Basic/Expert/Master Druid Spellcasting and Primal Breadth == more Primal Spell Slots...
So at 4th level I'd get one addition first level spell slot bringing me up to 5 total first level spells?
Having played a Sorcerer up to level 18, I can't stress enough how useless are low level spell slots. Before level 4 spells, you can ignore them, which means Expert Druid Spellcasting at a minimum. And even then you won't get much gain (and especially no gain that a simple low level wand can't cover).
In my opinion, just go Sorcerer, grab whatever you find to blast and you'll be fine. If you want more spells you can either find a proper Focus Spell or grab a few scrolls for tough cases. But I've found that the Sorcerer class gives you enough spell slots to last an adventuring day.
Having played a Sorcerer up to level 18, I can't stress enough how useless are low level spell slots. Before level 4 spells, you can ignore them, which means Expert Druid Spellcasting at a minimum. And even then you won't get much gain (and especially no gain that a simple low level wand can't cover).Well, I've played an occult sorc up to level 10 and I find low-level spells very useful. So more options and slots from bard dedication is very nice. When you don't want to use higher slots or have used them already even Sanctuary, +2 to mental saves from Soothe, Blur, Faerie fire or Heroism could be rather helpful. Not to mention True Strike (even though there's not a lot of good spell attacks in occult).
I don't know if Primal list has options of similar usefulness, but some should exist and others are the same as for occult.
Past a certain level, I've stopped emptying my level 1-3 spell slots.
I don't say these spells are useless, but to cast 5 of them in a day when they are no more competitive in combat? It didn't happen to me. Also, if you really overuse one of them, a Wand should do the trick as level 1-3 wands are not really expensive. So wasting class feats for that... In my opinion, it's a bad idea.
Basic/Expert/Master Druid Spellcasting and Primal Breadth == more Primal Spell Slots...So at 4th level I'd get one addition first level spell slot bringing me up to 5 total first level spells?
Yes. Then at 6th, you'll get a 2nd level spell slot and 8th a 3rd level slot. Expert and Master Druid Spellcasting give an additional slot for 4th thru 7th level spells. And Primal Breadth will give you a second spell slot for all but your two highest slots.
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Basic/Expert/Master Druid Spellcasting and Primal Breadth == more Primal Spell Slots...So at 4th level I'd get one addition first level spell slot bringing me up to 5 total first level spells?Yes. Then at 6th, you'll get a 2nd level spell slot and 8th a 3rd level slot. Expert and Master Druid Spellcasting give an additional slot for 4th thru 7th level spells. And Primal Breadth will give you a second spell slot for all but your two highest slots.
Here are my visual displays of the spellcasting progressions of various archetypes. I find them much easier to follow than the text descriptions. They are color-coded so you can see which benefits come from each feat.
I do like the Sorcerer feats besides level 2 and 4 and 6. Hence maybe just grab Druid Dedication, Druid order (Storm), Basic Druid spellcasting. With these low level spells I imagine it could be pretty good for spells such as Shockwave, or Longstrider? One thing I am not sure about, if I'm level 5 let's say, does Tempest Surge then deal 3D12 damage and continues to scale as if I were a full fledged druid?
If you want more top level slots for blasting, you either go Psychic and blast with powerful Focus spells (which are always heightened to your max spell level).
Or you play a Spell Blending Wizard Evoker. You probably want to get Dangerous Sorcery from Sorcerer Dedication for this.
That's how I'd do it, anyway.
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One thing I am not sure about, if I'm level 5 let's say, does Tempest Surge then deal 3D12 damage and continues to scale as if I were a full fledged druid?
Yes.
Rejoice!
Having played a Sorcerer up to level 18, I can't stress enough how useless are low level spell slots. Before level 4 spells, you can ignore them, which means Expert Druid Spellcasting at a minimum. And even then you won't get much gain (and especially no gain that a simple low level wand can't cover).
In my opinion, just go Sorcerer, grab whatever you find to blast and you'll be fine. If you want more spells you can either find a proper Focus Spell or grab a few scrolls for tough cases. But I've found that the Sorcerer class gives you enough spell slots to last an adventuring day.
A primal sorcerer can just use all of their 1st level slots on Lose the Path and have enemies run around like headless chickens without ever using a main turn action so I don't think this is a problem.
Fear 1, Grease, Summon Animal 1, Longstrider 2, Fear 3, Slow 3. Will never go out of fashion. Storm Order means Obsuring Mist. Do you Aid every turn which is why you don't like Lose the Path?
I usually hold on to my lower level slots for See Invisibility or maybe a 3 action magic missile or grease or agitate or a single target Haste or Slow. There are some useful low level slots that remain useful as you level. I do tend to focus on my higher level slots as well.
This is the first I've read of Lose the Path and I like it! So would you guys advise I get at least a couple of these prepared daily?
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This is the first I've read of Lose the Path and I like it! So would you guys advise I get at least a couple of these prepared daily?
Over to you. This is for a Sorcerer so ...
It is worth while when you are high level and you have so many spell slots you are not getting around to your level 1 options much. I mean your cantrips are going to do more damage than your level 1 slots fairly quickly.
It is one of very few Primal spells that are will saves. It is very thematic for Fey.
It may screw over an opponent's whole turn if you are lucky.
In the build I noticed at level 10 Greater Bloodline. Would that be to get Elemental Blast or would that be to get a second Focus Point to use Tempest Surge twice per fight? After reevaluating this I see it's to get Elemental Blast. Another thing, at level 8 I think Cross Blooded Evolution would be a bit better than Primal Breadth? Does Cross Blooded Evolution make it so I could take any spell on a different list and have access to it just like any other spell on my list? For example if I wanted Synesthesia could I now cast it just like any Primal Spell on my list?
In the build I noticed at level 10 Greater Bloodline. Would that be to get Elemental Blast or would that be to get a second Focus Point to use Tempest Surge twice per fight? After reevaluating this I see it's to get Elemental Blast. Another thing, at level 8 I think Cross Blooded Evolution would be a bit better than Primal Breadth? Does Cross Blooded Evolution make it so I could take any spell on a different list and have access to it just like any other spell on my list? For example if I wanted Synesthesia could I now cast it just like any Primal Spell on my list?
Any spells you add from Crossblood Evolution and Greater Crossblood Evolution are considered part of your character’s (and only your character’s) tradition. They can be retrained just like any other spell in your repertoire except bloodline spells.
It is the one feat every sorcerer takes no matter the build.
It is the one feat every sorcerer takes no matter the build.
I can personally attest to that not being the case.
It is the one feat every sorcerer takes no matter the build.I can personally attest to that not being the case.
Exceptions prove the rule. :)
Okay, maybe most sorcerers then.
Question guys, how does this type of Sorcerer defend themselves? He seems like quite the glass Cannon, is Fly (when available) a must have spell or?
And if not going Druid MC and just going straight Sorcerer would this stat line be good for a Halfling:
Str 8, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 18
Question guys, how does this type of Sorcerer defend themselves? He seems like quite the glass Cannon, is Fly (when available) a must have spell or?
Yes the 6HP pure casters are a bit vulnerable but it is not that much really.
Pay attention to your AC, normally some dex plus bracers of armor are enough. Maybe even take light armor proficiency for a few levels.
Stay out of melee. Take a few spells for defence for when you get caught in melee. Mirror Image, Blur, Invisibility, Fly etc.
It will be a lot more work if the GM always tries to move past the front rank to get you. It will be difficult if you don't have some allies that are prepared to stand in front.
In terms of defense, yes, primal sorcerer is quite vulnerable (much more than druid). It will be important to stay far from enemies, use whatever control spells you have to keep them far (entangle and such), and hope your teammates can help in the cases when that doesn't work. Whether you pick up bracers or enchanted explorer's clothing, you'll want to raise your AC. I personally prefer getting Dex as high as I can on sorcerers for this reason, but some people instead get decent AC and maximize Con for the extra hp. Also, don't forget that, while you don't have the Shield Block reaction, you can always use a shield for the AC bonus.
control spells you have to keep them far (entangle and such)I'd suggest Grease, Rime Slick or maybe Web, because they've completely (almost) broken Entangle in this edition for some vague reason: it now requires already existing plants covering the area. Good luck finding plants in dungeons, caves, towns or buildings.
Ah, you're right. Entangle was just one example of what I meant by control spells in this case (as opposed to, say, Command), but it does have its limitations (which also existed in 1e). I've been running a game that is largely set overland in forest and swamps, so it's the first spell that came to mind. XD The primal spell list has a lot of those battlefield control spells, so it's good to pick whichever fit the setting and expected adventure best.
Take a few spells for defence for when you get caught in melee. Mirror Image, Blur, Invisibility, Fly etc.Mirror Image - Not Primal
Blur - Not Primal
Invisibility - Not Primal
Fly - Primal.
I see only Barkskin and Shattering Gem. The latter one is decent.
Also Bracers of Armor are 8th level are the same as Potency plus Resilient runes (mostly) and only 50g cheaper than the sum of their costs (but have the difficulty how to swap for runes without losing much). So I don't see this advice as particularly helpful.
Yes sorry. Lost the primal context. Some spell level 1-3 options are
Defense: Protector Tree, Shattering Gem, Obscuring Mist especially if you took Mist Child or one of about 4 others ways of doing this, NettleSkin, Barkskin, Fear the Sun.
Control Options are things like Tanglefoot, Entangle, Web, Lose the Path, Mud Pit, Gust of Wind, Aqueous Orb
Buffs to movement to get away. Longstrider etc. Primal casters don't use Fly, they use the superior Air Walk.
Walls to block. My interpretation of Wall of Water is that it is transparent like Wall of Force, but it doesn't block spells Like lightning bolt - check with your GM.
Or just turn into a huge Ape and melee
Crossblooded evolution is overall core for all sorcerers, because you'll rarely find a better lvl 8 feat!
Primal breath would give you 1x lvl 1 and 1x lvl 2 spells by lvl 12. It may have some sense end game, maybe.
But mostly, are you sure you want to go with tempest surge? Being 1 point behind ( assuming you hit 20 wisdom by lvl 15 ) the sorcerer DC for more than half your journey is pretty tough.
You make a good point I didn't consider being 1pt behind. Is this a big deal? Big enough deal to consider MCing into say Bard or even something else?
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No, not if it's important to the concept of the character or just seems more fun to you. But you will notice it, especially from level 17 on when you have an Apex item for your Charisma. It's also worth noting that while a Bard MC will be using the same stat, they'll be using their lower Occult proficiency. There's a few levels (4-6, 12-14, 18) where they'll be at the same proficiency, but for the rest of your career it will be a step below your primal spells.
Hmm the Druid basic spell casting/expert/master isn't as appealing as it originally appeared to be after much breakdown. I was just looking at what spells I would fill with the extra primal low level slots and I was thinking what would be better would be to take Bard MC for the basic/expert/master as it would give me access to Occult spells and they do have some ones I could use without having to worry about the DC (True Strike, Heightened Invisibility, Magic Missile, Liberating Command, Time Jump). The biggest loss appears to be the loss of Tempest Surge, now is Tempest Surge (at a DC lower then Elemental Toss of course) much better than Elemental Toss or just slightly better?