Cascading ray vs true spellstrike


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Themetricsystem wrote:
When you use a Scroll you are using the Activate an Item Action in order to Cast a Spell

Nope.

Cast a spell wrote:
If an item lists “Cast a Spell” after “Activate,” the activation requires you to use the Cast a Spell activity (described on page 302) to Activate the Item.
Casting a spell from a scroll wrote:
Casting a Spell from a scroll requires holding the scroll in one hand and activating it with a Cast a Spell activity using the normal number of actions for that spell.
Casting a Spell from a staff wrote:
Casting a Spell from a staff requires holding the staff (typically in one hand) and Activating the staff by Casting the Spell, which takes the spell’s normal number of actions.
Casting Spells from a Wand wrote:
Casting a spell from a wand requires holding the wand in one hand and activating the item with a Cast a Spell activity using the normal number of actions for the spell.

It's the other way around. You are Casting a spell from an item and activating it by this. There's no Activate an item activity at all, it's completely overwritten. It's clear enough. The Cast a Spell activity is the only one happening.

Liberty's Edge

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Errenor wrote:
It's the other way around. You are Casting a spell from an item and activating it by this. There's no Activate an item activity at all, it's completely overwritten. It's clear enough. The Cast a Spell activity is the only one happening.

Again... wrong. The actual rules even specifically call out Cast a Spell as being an ACTIVATION COMPONENT for the Activate an Item Action/Activity. Check the last part of the table, it's very clearly spelled out. You are using an Item which has the Activate Component Cast a Spell, this is just flat out incompatible with Spellstrike unless you have a feature that enables it, Fused Staff makes it work for a Staff, and Strikers Scroll does it for Scrolls, that's just how it functions RAW.

I get that folks don't LIKE the rules here and want to run it differently, which is fine and totally acceptable to do for your own game (this is the advice subforum after all) but, respectfully, that doesn't change the fact that you are just flat out incorrect about what the rules actually say and how all of these things are defined. You can be right in your opinion about how you feel about the rules, but in terms of what the rules objectively say and mean, you're bending over backward to try to selectively read the text to fit how you want it to work.

Liberty's Edge

Pixel Popper wrote:
Themetricsystem wrote:
Regarding it being "destructive" toward the Twisting Tree Magus...that hybrid study has a ton of other benefits for the Magus that essentially makes the Staff as good for them as nearly any other weapon they might choose and if people were playing at the table...
Fused Staff
Secrets of Magic pg. 46 1.1 wrote:

When you prepare a staff, you can hold it up to a weapon to merge the two items. You can switch the fused item's form from the weapon to the staff or vice versa as a single action, which has the concentrate trait. When the item is in staff form, you can Cast the Spells from the staff and benefit from any other abilities the staff grants. The staff and the weapon share their fundamental runes, using whichever weapon potency and whichever striking rune is higher level. They don't share any other runes or specific abilities.

You can Cast Spells from the staff as part of a Spellstrike even when the staff is in weapon form. Otherwise, you can't cast the staff's spells while it's in weapon form.

The fusion lasts until your next daily preparations, though you can spend 10 minutes to separate the two items and meld the staff into a different weapon. The melding works for you alone. A different wielder can use the staff in its current form but can't transform it, get the benefit of the shared runes, or use its spells for a Spellstrike if it's in weapon form.

(Emphasis added.)

The two bolded portions matter.

If you cannot normally cast spells from a staff as part of a Spellstrike, that entire, bolded two-sentence paragraph is unnecessary. If that paragraph is intended to create an exception that allows what is otherwise prohibited, then it is worded all wrong.

Additionally, the proscription of another wielder from using the staff's spells for a Spellstrike while is in weapon form distinctly implies that they can use its spells for Spellstrike when it is a staff.

Those are very good points, even though they seem opposed to the no Activating an item while Spellstriking.

So, I would likely allow it as a GM, but I should not expect another GM to always allow it. And since I play PFS, I will go by my sacred rule of "Always expect the worse" and play my Magus as if it was not allowed.


Themetricsystem wrote:
Errenor wrote:
It's the other way around. You are Casting a spell from an item and activating it by this. There's no Activate an item activity at all, it's completely overwritten. It's clear enough. The Cast a Spell activity is the only one happening.
Again... wrong. The actual rules even specifically call out Cast a Spell as being an ACTIVATION COMPONENT for the Activate an Item Action/Activity.

Nowhere close to wrong. This only gives the framework for how Cast a spell overwrites Activate an item. That is all. Then all the quotes cited by me come into action.

I do think they made a mess. Again. But nothing new.

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