One of the very first things you said is that you want to be a "tank". Can you please share with us what you mean by that term?
A character with very good AC and the ability to threaten the enemy with damage. A PC with untouchable AC and very little ability to hit, is ignored. I think I'm willing to wait or forgo Heavy Armor Proficiency, at least until I can afford armor to make it worth it.
Also, how optimized is your group? Are you all really good number crunchers, or do you play a little more casually? Basically, we need to know what type of numbers you're shooting for. Also, point buy, or rolled stats?
Human Hunter with a small cat AC
Elf Ranger w/o an AC
Halfling Arcanist - blaster
It would really help to know about your stat generation though. Heal tanking is stat intensive. You really need them all, except intelligence.
20 point buy. Currently thinking . . .
Str 13 (to qualify for Power Attack)Dex 10 (all clerics go last)
Con 14
Int 10 (I need some skills)
Wis 18
Cha 12
I've thought about reducing Wis to 17, then bumping Con to 15 and Int to 12 for one more skill point and +1 to knowledge check. Wisdom would go to 18 at 4th level.
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@Dreklord we can agree to disagree on some things, my experience in Pathfinder has lead me to the conclusion that early levels you can perform in a much superior manner with a cleric or oracle. Especially in scenarios where you are limited in time and resources (both of the NPC variety and the consumables variety) Especially when you are doing 5-7(or more) encounters per "adventuring day" early on. Infernal healing is an evil spell, and so likely not something many groups will make use of. At least not widely.
My NPC suggestion was intended as a joke, apologies if it came off differently. I forget that my sarcasm does not translate into text/messages/posts very well.
Lastly, decide wether your primary offense is spells or your hammer.
I would start here actually. Your stat spread screams "I want to just cast spells." The curse of being a Battle Cleric is that as you gain levels, your ability to swing a weapon becomes increasingly less useful in comparison to casting another spell. Your initial stat spread can do a lot to hold that off as well as using a two-handed weapon.
Something like...
Str 14[5]
Dex 12[2]
Con 14[2]
Int 10
Wis 16[5]
Cha 12[5]
with the extra 1 pb you can bump the Dex or Con up, both are very valid options. TBH, I don't really like having to buy a 14 Cha here since Channel Energy is super weak. Dropping it to 10 means you could buy a 12 Int or bump the Dex to 14 which is nice.
20 point buy. Currently thinking . . .
Str 13 (to qualify for Power Attack)
Dex 10 (all clerics go last)
Con 14
Int 10 (I need some skills)
Wis 18
Cha 12
I'll echo what others have said - if you're not willing to dump INT then I'd lose some focus on CHA. You save 3 points by dropping CHA to 10 and you're really only losing 1 channel per day.
Regarding dropping WIS, I reeaally like 18 WIS at level 1 if you're focusing on that for casting, but 17 is acceptable in a pinch ...
Every extra +1 in your casting modifier gives you +1 to save DCs, concentration checks, etc. These will happen at every +1, so there's no real "best" number besides "higher is better".
But there are 2 other things your casting stat gets you:
1. The ability to cast at all. We don't usually think much about this but you need "10 plus the spell level" in your casting stat to be able to cast. This means for a Cleric you need to have 19 WIS by level 17 or you won't be able to cast your 9th level spells. This is easy to do, 13 WIS and a +6 headband will get you there if that's all you need .
2. Bonus spell slots. If you take a look HERE you can see that higher scores give you more bonus spells. The pattern is 2-fold.
First, your highest level of Bonus Spell is equal to your casting stat modifier .
Second, you also get even more bonus spells of a spell-level 4 levels lower than your highest bonus spell level .
What this means is thar going from a +7 to a +8 modifier in your casting stat gives you a bonus spells at spell-levels 8 and 4 . Going from a +8 to a +9 modifier in your casting stat gives you bonus spells at spell-levels 9, 5 and 1 . Going from a +9 modifier to a +10 modifier in your casting stat gives you bonus spells at spell-levels 6 and 2 .
So in effect you have a couple of "Soft Caps" on your casting stat.
19 gives you the ability to cast all your spells.
28 gives you bonus spells at your highest spell-level.
You could go even further to get more high level bonus spells , but it's usually not feasable.
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So if you want a 28 WIS at level 17, how to achieve it?
First, that 28 WIS can include a +6 headband, so you only need 22 naturally. Second, you get four +1's to spend on stats by that point in the game, so you need to start the game with 18 WIS to get there .
Now, you don't necessarily need that bonus spell-slot right away. If you wanted to you could start with 17 WIS and end up with 28 WIS by level 20 - you'd miss that 9th level spell-slot for levels 17, 18 and 19, but you'd get it eventually, so that's fine if you're going to level 20.
And finally, you don't NEED those bonus spell-slots. I like to plan my characters that way because the optimizer and maths-nerd in me see that as a unique cut-off point to get the most out of my point-buy, but you certainly don't have to abide by my character creation methods. If you're happy with a 16 WIS to begin with then go for it. In fact the extra 5 points to spend on stats might make your first 10 levels a lot more fun, and since fun is what we're aiming for that absolutely could be good trade.
Are you looking to use channel energy offensively or just to heal? Channel energy is actually most useful for healing in the early levels. It is also something best done out of combat instead of in combat. In a undead heavy campaign a cleric with the right race and domains can inflict serious damage vs undead. One of my players is using an Aasimar cleric with the Sun and Glory domains and can do massive damage with his channels. But that is a major focus for the character.
Personally I think you may be investing too much in CHA and WIS. The stats that you posted look like they are for a caster focused character, not a frontline combatant. All the 12 CHA gives you over 10 is 1 extra channel energy and +1 on the DC to save on the channel. You don’t qualify for any channel related feats and probably don’t have the feats to spare if you did. Putting the 14 in CON instead of CHA will give you +1 HP per level and a +1 FORT save, it also gives you an additional 2 points before you are killed.
At low levels your spells are not going to be as useful as your weapons. Clerics have a limited number of offensive spells and those they do have tend to be higher level. The first 4-5 levels you will probably be using your weapon more than your spells for offense. The spells you do have will probably be self buffs like Divine Favor. By going with a 14 STR to start with you get a +1 to hit and damage when you will be using them more. As you level up your spell casting will improve and you will gain more options, but at 1st level you are going to be swinging your weapon a lot more than casting spells. Taking Power Attack with a low chance to hit is just going to make your character worse.
Having a DEX bonus increases your AC, and Reflex saves as well as initiative. Probably worth putting in a few points into it.
I would probably go with a STR 14, DEX 13, CON 16, INT 10, WIS 16, CHA 10. Put your favored class bonus into skills to give you at least some options out of combat.
By going with a 14 STR to start with you get a +1 to hit and damage when you will be using them more. As you level up your spell casting will improve and you will gain more options, but at 1st level you are going to be swinging your weapon a lot more than casting spells. Taking Power Attack with a low chance to hit is just going to make your character worse.
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I would probably go with a STR 14, DEX 13, CON 16, INT 10, WIS 16, CHA 10. Put your favored class bonus into skills to give you at least some options out of combat.
I strongly agree with this.
I'd probably have a slightly different spread , but this is good advice for low levels.
I'd leave Power Attack till level 5 or 7, since it's not as impactful till +4 BAB.
Lots of good reading.
Thanks.
What do you think of . . .
20 point buy.
Str 15 (+2 TH and to qualify for Power Attack)
Dex 12 (Mysterious Stranger advice)
Con 14
Int 12 (I need some skills)
Wis 17 (4th level it's at 18)
Cha 10
I can use my Favorite Class bonus for hit points. The +1 Int gives me one additional (much appreciated) skill point per level and +1 on knowledge checks.
I still really like Guided Hand, unfortunately I didn't originally see that Channel Smite is a prerequisite and it's very situational.
Feats I'm considering in no particular order
Power Attack
Weapon Focus
Selective Channel
Scribe Scroll
Channel Smite --> Guided Hand
You don’t qualify for any channel related feats and probably don’t have the feats to spare if you did.
I'm confused. What channel related feats can't I qualify for?
20 point buy.
Str 15 (+2 TH and to qualify for Power Attack)
Dex 12 (Mysterious Stranger advice)
Con 14
Int 12 (I need some skills)
Wis 17 (4th level it's at 18)
Cha 10
I'm assuming you meant 14 STR for 5 points? If so that looks like a perfect stat-spread to me.
I can use my Favorite Class bonus for hit points. The +1 Int gives me one additional (much appreciated) skill point per level and +1 on knowledge checks.
I still really like Guided Hand, unfortunately I didn't originally see that Channel Smite is a prerequisite and it's very situational.
Feats I'm considering in no particular order
Power Attack
Weapon Focus
Selective Channel
Scribe Scroll
Channel Smite --> Guided Hand
Those mostly look good. I'd hope that with Guided Hand you won't need Weapon Focus, but time will tell really . I'd probably go for Guided Hand first unless you're still considering Heavy Armour.
You don’t qualify for any channel related feats and probably don’t have the feats to spare if you did.I'm confused. What channel related feats can't I qualify for?
Most channel feats have a CHA-13 requirement
Prerequisites: Cha 13, channel energy class feature.
Even without that, Selective Channeling does nothing without a positive CHA modifier. It's something you could maybe look into later when you can afford a CHA/WIS headband or something though?
Selective channel is necessary if you want to channel in combat. And while healing out of combat isn’t worthless, it’s pretty cheap once your party starts getting wands of cure light wounds.
Honestly, you really can’t have it all, unless your stats are high above normal. You can maybe be a decent melee fighter and a decent spellcaster. But being a decent combat channeler is expensive as a dwarf, and trying to do the other two isn’t cheap.
If you didn’t care about your damage output, you could focus on casting and channeling. And just be wearing armor for the inevitable aggro you’ll draw from healing. Maybe set up flanks or use the aid action in combat instead of trying hurt anyone.
Honestly, I'd put my Favored Class Bonus into Skill Points instead of HP. A d8 and 14 Con is totally acceptable for a frontliner.
And yeah, since it's Kingmaker, Scribe Scroll and other Magic Item Creation feats will have insane value. It's not uncommon in Kingmaker for the party to fight 1 encounter and then rest since there's a lot of traveling around.
Kasoh's stat spread is probably what I would lean towards bringing to a game.
Honestly, I'd put my Favored Class Bonus into Skill Points instead of HP. A d8 and 14 Con is totally acceptable for a frontliner.
Usually what I do is put the FCB in HP at level 1 and then from level 2 onward I look at skills or alternate FCB. If you find yourself taking more damage you can always keep putting points into HP as needed.
Also, while we're at it:
Dwarf : Select one domain power granted at 1st level that is normally usable a number of times per day equal to 3 + the cleric's Wisdom modifier. The cleric adds +1/2 to the number of uses per day of that domain power.
How useful that is will depend on your domain(s), but it's something to consider when choosing them. It's probably less useful for the Guided Hand build , but if you decide to go STR-based it could greatly increase the usefulness of your domain powers.
And yeah, since it's Kingmaker, Scribe Scroll and other Magic Item Creation feats will have insane value. It's not uncommon in Kingmaker for the party to fight 1 encounter and then rest since there's a lot of traveling around.
Kasoh's stat spread is probably what I would lean towards bringing to a game.
Good advice. I still prefer the WIS build, but that's personal preference. If you go the STR build Kasoh has a good spread.
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20 point buy.
Str 15 (+2 TH and to qualify for Power Attack)
Dex 12 (Mysterious Stranger advice)
Con 14
Int 12 (I need some skills)
Wis 17 (4th level it's at 18)
Cha 10I'm assuming you meant 14 STR for 5 points? If so that looks like a perfect stat-spread to me.
I Think its still spread too thin, personally, You can always grab more channels with a feat if need be, and with a 16 strength and 3/4 BaB, there is really no need to grab power attack. You'll be relying on spells for melee prowess after level 5 or so. Channel is out of combat healing.
I would also prefer for him to have a Dex of 13, so he could pick up dodge if he desired.
Feats I'd recommend for the above-
Weapon focus (chosen weapon)
Combat Casting
Dodge
Shield focus/armor focus
Extra Channel
Steel Soul
Also, do we know what domains he is wanting to go for? Domains could lead to changing things up. Honestly, healing domain would be good simply because in combat healing, when needed, is usually -really- needed. It also can save spells when you are out of channels.
As others have said, this build won't "pull aggro" due to its melee capabilities, but moreso its spellcasting and healing alongside its medium damage threat as a martial.
Guided Hand is not worth 2 feats unless you are ignoring STR. With a 15 STR and 17 WIS the difference between them is only a +1 to hit and damage. Even when you bump up the stats they will probably be fairly close. Don’t forget that you can get a belt to increase you STR as well as a headband to increase your WIS. Don’t waste time with this.
For feats I would recommend the following feats in this order.
1st) Weapon Focus (Gives you a boost when you need it most)
3rd) Steel Soul (Part of being a tank is being able to make your saves)
5th) Combat Casting (You are now starting to get better spells so may be using them more)
7th) Scribe Scroll (At this point you have access to more spells and the cash to actually make scrolls)
9th) Power Attack (By now you have access to significant buffs so the accuracy penalty is not as bad)
11th) Heavy Armor
Feat Thoughts:
C1: Scribe Scroll
C3: Channel Smite
C3: write a lot of scrolls
C3: retrain Scribe Scroll to Guided Hand
C5: Power Attack or Scribe Scroll
C7:
I Think its still spread too thin, personally, You can always grab more channels with a feat if need be, and with a 16 strength and 3/4 BaB, there is really no need to grab power attack. You'll be relying on spells for melee prowess after level 5 or so. Channel is out of combat healing.20 point buy.
Str 15 (+2 TH and to qualify for Power Attack)
Dex 12 (Mysterious Stranger advice)
Con 14
Int 12 (I need some skills)
Wis 17 (4th level it's at 18)
Cha 10I'm assuming you meant 14 STR for 5 points? If so that looks like a perfect stat-spread to me.
Depends what you're looking for from your feats.
The 14 STR vs 13 is basically helping your to-hit until you get Guided Hand , and qualifying for Power Attack. The extra +1 damage when 2-handing your weapon is also not bad either, and all of this comes at a cost of 2 build points over the OP's original 13 STR build. Going for 16 STR doesn't really add much with Guided Hand but costs another 5 build points. If you went with the STR build you'd have more feats but you likely won't get your attack stat as high as the WIS-build. So essentially the WIS-build should have slightly better accuracy, much better save DCs, and more uses of domain abilities/etc, while the STR build.
If you can squeeze some more out of the point buy with the STR-build then it could be a better idea, but since you have to pump at peast 10 points into STR to keep it relevant it doesn't leave as much room for spreading the stats out.
@MysteriousStranger: I think that was meant to be 14 STR, not 15.
I don’t see what the big draw with guided hand is on a cleric that is not dumping STR. Burning 2 feats for a minor bonus to hit and damage does not make sense. If you really want to get WIS to hit and damage the Guided Enchantment is only a +1. But if you are going either of those routes dropping your STR would make more sense. But that makes your character a lot weaker until you get WIS to hit and damage. It also means you may need to start worrying about encumbrance.
Guided Weapon is actually better since it lets you add your WIS to damsge but there are 2 advantages to Guided Hand over a Guided Weapon.
1. It comes online earlier. You can get Guided Hand by level 3, whereas a +2 weapon is likely not coming online till level 7 or so.
2. Guided Hand is technically not Pathfinder material. It's DnD 3.5 material that was written by Paizo. If the GM allows it then it's also a good option to look at.
I don’t see what the big draw with guided hand is on a cleric that is not dumping STR.
The draw is being able to max out 1 stat to increase your martial offense and your casting offense.
Maxing STR would mean you can't effectively use offensive spells. Maxing WIS without Guided Hand means you can't effectively use a weapon.
Having Guided Weapon is slightly less strong martially than a STR-based cleric, and costs a few feats, but it doesn't really hurt the casting side at all. It makes you 75% of a Martial character and 100% of a caster.
While spending feats on martial persuits does taks away from your available feats for casting, casting is not something that Needs heavy feat investment. And while you're losing a couple of feats, any group offensive combat buffs you cast are multiplied by the number of martials being buffed, so adding another weapon to the roster increases their effectiveness.
So it won't be the best Martial, but it'll be a capable one, and it'll do so without really sacrificing anything on the casting side.
Also, y'know, sometimes people have a theme in mind that doesn't fit 100% within the optimization guidelines we tend to adhere to on the forums. Like how Swiftbrook wanted to be a 9th level caster with a hammer.
My point is that if you are going for guided hand you don’t bother investing in STR. Putting ¼ of your total points into a stat that is not going to get used is a waste. If your plan is to take guided hand you want to max out your WIS and not put anything into STR.
If you are going for guided hand I would change the stats to STR 10, DEX 13, CON 14, INT 13, WIS 18 CHA of 10, or maybe STR 12 DEX 12, CON 14, INT 12 WIS 18 and CHA of 10. Take Channel Smite at 1st level and Guided Hand at 3rd. The first two levels are going to be kind of painful as you chance to hit is greatly reduced. Slow and steady will help avoid encumbrance penalties. Also don’t bother with heavy armor as it will tend to put you at maximum load and Mithral Plate is expensive.
Yeah that might be a better idea. I'd still put STR at 13 for Power Attack , but 13 might be better than 14. I was suggesting 14 because I thought Swiftbrook was still going for Heavy Armour, which would knock Guided Hand back to level 5 at the earliest, and gettng to level 5 with 13 STR would be rough.
Hmmmm ... problem is that 13 STR doesn't let you increase your WIS to 18 without dropping something else as well. 12 STR does, what's another way to improve damage to replace Power Attack?
Is magic weapon on the cleric list? Also, in general, won't the answer to anything that needs shoring up be to find the spell for that?
Also, isn't there a feat that adds damage for a weapon? Weapon expertise? I thought anyone could take that feat, but I also have a vague memory of someone saying it's fighter only. Any traits for this? Or a divine equivalent to Arcane Strike?
If not, then I'd recommend dropping the Int, if the Str really needs to be 13. FCB for the skill point if needed.
WEAPON SPECIALIZATION is Fighter only. It's also only +2 damage. That's not bad but Power Attack scales to +12 damage for a Cleric if you can keep your accuracy high enough to use it. It's not really a replacement for Power Attack. Piranha Strike could work, but not with a Warhammer.
If you are thinking of going dwarf with a fighter dip then I'll advocate for a reach cleric as well. Check out Brewer's guide if you haven't already. I am currently playing a dwarven reach Cleric11/Fighter1 of Gorum in Kingmaker and I have to say transforming into an 8' tall, 1600lb hulk of divine ferocity is fun!
Domains: Glory grants you a nice buff to give to your party face. This can be handy when building a kingdom. Strength(Ferocity subdomain) domain gives you access to the Enlarge Person spell which combined with a dwarven reach weapon makes the area you threaten a 50' diameter circle! I chose the Dorn Dergar because it's awesome but there's also the Dwarven Longhammer and Longaxe.
Feats: Additional Traits, Combat Reflexes, Divine Interference, Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Quicken Spell, Toughness
Traits: Fate's Favored, Magical Lineage(Divine Favor), Pattern Seeker, Reactionary
Ability Scores: We rolled ours but with a 20pt buy you could go with Str14, Dex14, Con16, Int10, Wis16, Cha8 after racial adjustments. I cast mainly self buffs, party buffs, condition removal, and battle field control spells. He doesn't cast offensively very often so Wis doesn't need to be maxed. Rather than combat healing he focuses on damage mitigation. We do most of our healing out of combat with a wand.
Trying to be the best at everything leads to being bad at everything. But being the best at one thing and being good at several other things is possible. With Guided Hand you only get your WIS to hit not to damage. So if you want to focus on being a caster and still being ok at combat it is not bad. But If you are trying to be good at combat it is lacking.
One thing to also keep in mind is that the character can also get a belt to increase his STR. This increases both his chance to hit and damage. If he is using a two handed weapon he gets 1.5 times his STR bonus. Assuming a 14 starting STR and a +4 belt that gives him +4 to hit and +6 to damage. If he uses guided hand guided hand and power attack he gets -3 on his chance to hit and +10 damage. The -3 is partially countered by his increased chance to hit because of his higher WIS. The STR based cleric can also take power attack which leads to a +1 to hit and a +15 to hit. The numbers are assuming a 12th level cleric using a two handed weapon.
If the cleric is going to be focusing on spells he is going to want to get combat casting fairly early. He also may want to look at things like spell focus and spell penetration and their greater versions. At high level spell resistance becomes a real pain for casters so ignoring these is going to diminish his ability to function.
I'd say the real trick to Cleric is how much better it is at fighting than casting at low level compared to how much better it is at casting than fighting at high levels. At level 1 or 2, you'll only have a couple spells that will probably get used for out of combat healing. But once you hit level 9 and have enough 4th and 5th level spells with lower level spells to supplement, you'll be hard pressed to find value in attacking during any round that matters. But being good at both isn't very hard if you don't bother with offensive spells. A starting 15 wisdom isn't too hard to come across, and gives you more than enough wisdom to get all your spell levels as you come across them.
Honestly, I've never heard of anyone starting as a caster cleric and deciding to go melee afterwards. It's probably happened, but it has to be a rare case.
The problem with try to go with an offensive caster based cleric is that most of their offensive spells are focused on undead and outsiders of an opposed alignment. Outside of this most of the offensive spells are kind of weak. If you try and match the wizard for offensive power you are probably going to be disappointed. But that is not where the strength of the clerics spells list lies.
Searing light is probably one of the better 3rd level offensive cleric spell. It affects a single target and requires a ranged touch attack. Against most targets it does 1d8 per two caster levels and maxes out at 5d8. Against undead it does 1d6 per level and maxes out at 10d6, and if the undead is vulnerable to light it does slightly more damage. Compare that to a fireball that does 1d6 damage per level to all targets within a 20 ft. radius, and you see the cleric is never going to match the damage of the wizard.
Prayer is also a 3rd level spell. Prayer affects everyone within 40 ft. of the cleric. All allies gain a +1 luck bonus on attack roll, damage saves and skills, while all enemies take a -1 penalty on the same. Your enemies do not get a save to ignore or reduce the penalty. It also last for a round per level. Luck bonuses are fairly rare so this bonus will stack with just about everything.
Comparing the two spells shows prayer usually the better choice. At 5th level when you get access to 3rd level spells Searing Light does 2d8 points of damage for an average of 9 points of damage, VS and undead it does 17.5 points of damage on the average. Prayer on the other hand gives the whole party a boost, and penalizes your opponents for 5 rounds. While it may not be as flashy as Searing Light, Prayer will actually do more for the party in the long run. At higher level Searing Light will do more damage, but the opponents will be tougher so it is about the same. One the other hand at higher level the penalty for a party member failing a save or missing is a lot worse.
Some of the clerics higher level spells are even better. Blessing of Fervor is probably the single best buff in the game. Being able to choose the benefit is a huge advantage. The point I am trying to make is that a support caster is still a full caster. They still use their spells to bring an end to the battle, they just achieve that in a different way.
The problem with try to go with an offensive caster based cleric is that most of their offensive spells are focused on undead and outsiders of an opposed alignment. Outside of this most of the offensive spells are kind of weak. If you try and match the wizard for offensive power you are probably going to be disappointed. But that is not where the strength of the clerics spells list lies.
"Offensive spells" isn't the same as "damaging spells".
Command, Forbid Action and Murderous Command can all be incredible spells to control the battlefield. I completely took a Sorceress out of a battle with the Command spell by commanding her to "approach", she provoked 2 AoOs getting to me and it left her standing between 3 PCs.
Greater Command and Greater Forbid Action can shut down entire encounters.
An "Offensive" spell in this context is any spell that requires a saving throw. Clerics have plenty of those, and they're quite good.
Sysryke: the issue with a Cleric relying on their spells for combat buffs is two-fold. First, how do they manage a meager amount of spell slots against not only their need to buff but ALSO the needs of the party to get healed or receive restorative magic? And second, how does the caster get their spells off without getting creamed by AoO's.
I missed this.
I think your post had lots of good advice, but Clerics don't have a "meagre" amount of spell slots, they're 9th level casters with the same spells-per-day as a Wizard. Sure at early levels you have to be judicious, but so does everybody. By level 7 or so you can spam spells all day and be fine.
Not to mention of all the prepared casters, Clerics get probably the most value out of Pearl of Power 1s.
the issue with a Cleric relying on their spells for combat buffs is two-fold. First, how do they manage a meager amount of spell slots against not only their need to buff but ALSO the needs of the party to get healed or receive restorative magic?
By not preparing condition removal spells, instead leaving spell slots open. Then, if there is a condition to remove, you take 15min to prepare the respective removal spell in an open slot.
And second, how does the caster get their spells off without getting creamed by AoO's.
You don't - when you're in melee range, you do what you build your character to be able to do and attack. Spending multiple rounds buffing when you're in the thick of combat is a poor use of actions, anyway.
I'm really liking Guided Hand. Wow, that's just awesome!
Not really. Two feats are a notable investment (unless you dip, but a dip destroys the benefits of high wisdom), and it only affects attack rolls, not damage rolls. Which means when using it your damage will be very poor, and your character focus would not be on martial combat, it will probably be more of a combat caster with a martial afterthought.
You'd also definitely need a deity.
No way...Like I said...
The interaction between alignment - deity - domains - archetype - race - stat distribution is hugely important.
Even on the basic list from Lv 1-3, these are some solid "offensive" choices...
Burning Disarm (I once did a MM build on this spell and it was hilarious), Command, Murderous Command, Boneshaker, Burst of Radiance, Drunkard’s Breath, Hold Person, Light Prison, Shatter, Archon's Aura, Bestow Curse, Blindness/Deafness, Chain of Perdition, Searing Light
Whenever you think about spells on a Cleric, you have to factor in domain powers, spells and deities too....
Worship Shizuru...now you can cast Scorching Ray and Colour Spray
Worship Grandmother Spider.... now you can cast Web
Choose Samsaran as a race.... grab some spells
Chose Dwarf as a race....Steel Soul + Glory of Old and laugh at enemy casters
Ash subdomain... now you become a great blaster and blinder
Light subdomain....now you become an AOE Blinding/Dazzling machine
Caves subdomain....now you're dropping people into pits
Etc, etc, etc.....
Cleric building involves digging and reading.... its not like Wizard where you just stare at your spell list
This is a great list of spells and abilities.
One thing worth thinking about though is the flavour of your Cleric - specifically, the deity you worship.
This is a much more important question for a Cleric than it is for any other class - even Paladins . Your choice of deity is likely just as impactful as your stats, feats, skills, etc.
The biggest choice is probably Good/Neutral/Evil, but getting into the specifics can change a lot about your character. A NE Cleric of Rovagug is unlikely to get along with a NE Cleric of Asmodeus, so even within similar alignments you should choose your patron with as much care as the rest of your character.
And yes you can go with an ideal, and do a little shopping for some good domains/etc to put in your cart, but I would flesh that ideal out as much as possible. Get specific with where you stand on certain topics, which deities align with your ideals .
Something as simple as a USEFUL SPELL being associated with Devil Worshipppers may change how you play your character ... or maybe it won't?
Those choices are yours, but for a Cleric they're important ones.
(And for the record, this isn't a Neckbeard, it's a Covid Lockdown beard ... I really do need a shave though =P )
My advice is 100% sound, solid and constructive and doesn't mean that the poster cant thread post, just that they should educate themselves using the excellent resources available (ie the Class Guides) beforehand as opposed to just declaring yourself a newb and getting others to do the work for you.
That makes the assumption that a guide writer knows what he was talking about. It's better for new people to make posts like this so they can be given information specific to their situation, from a varied group of voices. Thus they can make a truly informed decision. The guides are more for post-new people to gain more system mastery, and compare their thoughts to others'.
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And objectively speaking, the knowledge of ANY poster in ANY thread can be questioned.... so there are no guarantees anwyay.
Actually, that was part of my post. It's better to post a thread like this and get a variety of opinions. Some of those opinions will invariably disagree about things. This disagreement can actually be way better for seeing the different sides of an issue. Then the poster can go and formulate their own opinion.
The other problem with new people using guides is how much useless information there is for them. If you want to make a melee cleric, then reading about caster clerics won't do you a lot of good.
And seriously, what's the problem with people coming here first? If you don't want to help someone else with their question, you could just stay quiet. It costs you nothing. It's like you're acting offended over something that really has nothing to do with you.