So Questions
1: Can you use treat wounds on an Eidolon?
2: Does this count separately from the summoner ie do they now both need to wait 1 hour/10 mins before treated again?
3: If so can one use ward medic to treat both eidolon and the summoner at the same time healing them twice effectivly?
4: Does battle medicine work on them each separately?
Thankyou.
1) Yes, no reason to think you can't.
2-4) Debatable.I lean towards them being a true separate creature, even if you have a shared HP pool, so I'd say yes. But you may have GMs who think that's too good and say no, so this won't have a consistent answer unless Paizo says something.
Which is why I am asking :-) It does seem a little too good but at the same time not broken ether.
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Which is why I am asking :-) It does seem a little too good but at the same time not broken ether.1) Yes, no reason to think you can't.
2-4) Debatable.I lean towards them being a true separate creature, even if you have a shared HP pool, so I'd say yes. But you may have GMs who think that's too good and say no, so this won't have a consistent answer unless Paizo says something.
The rule is:
if you and your eidolon are both subject to the same effect that affects your Hit Points, you apply those effects only once (applying the greater effect, if applicable).And Treat Wounds says:
The target is then temporarily immune to Treat Wounds actions for 1 hour
Its not debatable in that the sense that there are clear rules. The Eidolon and the Summoner are separate creatures and separate targets that can be healed separately. The Treat Wounds cooldown is separate.
However something like Ward Medic which does both at once is only going to apply once.
What is debateable is - is this a rort that GMs should close?
Not a major concern for me, this type of healing is cheap out of combat. So I'd just let it stand as it reads, on the basis that we should only fiddle with the rules if its a significant problem.
Yeah, that's a good point. Out of combat healing can already be trivialized pretty easily. Literally just having a Champion around makes it pretty much a forgone conclusion, but medicine investment is something pretty much anyone can do.
Well a champion, a oracle with the blessed one archetype, a forensic medicine investigator with the medic archetype while the summoner uses lifelink surge. ;)
Raising this post from the dead for those like me went on searching google about Eidolons and the Medicine skill and this was the first result, but the comments below are both wrong
Its not debatable in that the sense that there are clear rules. The Eidolon and the Summoner are separate creatures and separate targets that can be healed separately. The Treat Wounds cooldown is separate.
I think RAW is:
2) It would count separately.
Jason confirmed in the tweet below that Eidolons and Summoners share the same cooldown for any Medicine actions, I guess it is still debatable whether you can run 2 BMs against ANOTHER target, but you most definitely cannot do it twice on the Summoner/Eidolon, otherwise it would be incredibly OP. In the future try to think about the most important rule in pf2e when you find a combination that is "too good to be true, it probably isn't"
https://twitter.com/Ghilteras/status/1672639468959064064
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Tweets aren't official rules, and the official rules don't agree with that assessment, given that Summoner/Eidolon can be double-targeted by effects which target individual creatures, such as Scorching Ray and Electric Arc, a literal inverse of what Jason states is "too good to be true." So to me, it sounds like they cancel each other out, meaning it's fair game.
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Raising this post from the dead for those like me went on searching google about Eidolons and the Medicine skill and this was the first result, but the comments below are both wrong
Its not debatable in that the sense that there are clear rules. The Eidolon and the Summoner are separate creatures and separate targets that can be healed separately. The Treat Wounds cooldown is separate.
I think RAW is:
2) It would count separately.
Jason confirmed in the tweet below that Eidolons and Summoners share the same cooldown for any Medicine actions, I guess it is still debatable whether you can run 2 BMs against ANOTHER target, but you most definitely cannot do it twice on the Summoner/Eidolon, otherwise it would be incredibly OP. In the future try to think about the most important rule in pf2e when you find a combination that is "too good to be true, it probably isn't"
https://twitter.com/Ghilteras/status/1672639468959064064
No Jason didn't say it was wrong, he just decided it seems to be too good to be true. It is what the rules actually say. Catch him on another day it might go the other way.
He certainly didn't use the rules terms you just did.
IMO the 2 and 4 statements of OP falls in general "too good to be true" situation too. Even with a RAW interpretation allowing it.
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IMO the 2 and 4 statements of OP falls in general "too good to be true" situation too. Even with a RAW interpretation allowing it.
I'm sorry but the whole linked HP situation with the Eidolon is totally fantastical. Eidolon + Summoner both can get attacked and healed separately anyway. There are two bodies to be hurt. Two lots of healing makes a fair amount of sense. Two seperate heal spells works. Why not two separate bandages?
TGTBT is highly subjective. Especially in this case.
RAW is clear here. It is not grey. That is a much better position than many other Summoner issues.
It's a valid roleplaying to try to convince a GM that you're not too good. Anyway I think it's important to note that it's not something that will break the game in any way just because the Summoner gets to receive an extra Battle Medicine than the other classes. In the end no matter what limitation is used no one will be OP or weak because of it.
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Tweets aren't official rules,
Exactly. If any of the rules developers want to clarify or change the rules regarding how Treat Wounds, with or without Ward Medic, interacts with Eidolon and Summoner's shared HP - there is a process for that. One that does not involve Twitter.
Game developers need to be allowed to have opinions or even make rulings for their own games without those statements being interpreted as official rules for everyone. Otherwise they aren't able to publicly play the game that they love enough to create.
Tweets aren't official rules,Exactly. If any of the rules developers want to clarify or change the rules regarding how Treat Wounds, with or without Ward Medic, interacts with Eidolon and Summoner's shared HP - there is a process for that. One that does not involve Twitter.
Game developers need to be allowed to have opinions or even make rulings for their own games without those statements being interpreted as official rules for everyone. Otherwise they aren't able to publicly play the game that they love enough to create.
Agree with the principle, but you have to admit getting into a rules argument with a developer would be different for most people.