What breaks if you hack together a Divine Magus?

[keftiu]

Obviously this is nowhere near RAW, but I’m imagining a very straightforward hack: swap the Arcane spell list for Divine, and swap Int spellcasting for Wis. Would there be any catastrophic rules interactions or balance concerns?

[HumbleGamer]

keftiu wrote:

Obviously this is nowhere near RAW, but I’m imagining a very straightforward hack: swap the Arcane spell list for Divine, and swap Int spellcasting for Wis. Would there be any catastrophic rules interactions or balance concerns?

The free spells the magus get from his study are all from the arcane list, aren't they?

This means the magus would then be able to mix arcane + divine ( huge ).

In addition to that, you'll be just using Blood Feast ( it's also on the divine tradition as well ) while benefiting from healing stuff ( for example, vital beacon ).

I am not sure about it being "catastrophic" since I can just guess what you mean by that, but giving huge heals to a magus ( at some point it might be regeneration, high lvl heal, vital beacon, etc... ) is definitely going to make it tanky.

For example, a lvl 16 magus would be able to use either regeneration and hymn of healing ( effortless concentration ) during a boss fight, resulting into

15+16 healings/ round + 16 temp hp per round.

[Perpdepog]

There are also relatively few spell attack roll spells on the divine list, if I'm remembering right, which would make feats that modify the spells you can use with Spellstrike more of a necessity.

[gesalt]

keftiu wrote:

Obviously this is nowhere near RAW, but I’m imagining a very straightforward hack: swap the Arcane spell list for Divine, and swap Int spellcasting for Wis. Would there be any catastrophic rules interactions or balance concerns?

The result is basically what warpriest should have been. Just swap their bonus spells for a handful of divine spells and call it a day.

[HumbleGamer]

I forgot probably the most important part...

... what about damage cantrips?

Would it be tied to divine lance or divine spellcasters got other spell attack spells?

[Kelseus]

HumbleGamer wrote:

I forgot probably the most important part...

... what about damage cantrips?

Would it be tied to divine lance or divine spellcasters got other spell attack spells?

There are multiple new spell attack roll cantrips in SoM, but none are on the divine list.

[HumbleGamer]

Kelseus wrote:

HumbleGamer wrote:

I forgot probably the most important part...

... what about damage cantrips?

Would it be tied to divine lance or divine spellcasters got other spell attack spells?

There are multiple new spell attack roll cantrips in SoM, but none are on the divine list.

Then it might be the worst magus ever ( unless adopted cantrip, maybe ), I guess.

[Claxon]

Yeah, my first thought is the lack of attack spells that would otherwise qualify for spellstrike on the divine list is going to be a problem.

[Perpdepog]

There is a level 2 magus feat, Expansive Spellstrike, that lets you Spellstrike with save spells at least.

[fanatic66]

My gut feeling is that you are sacrificing offensive prowess for more buff and healing spells. The Divine List lacks good offensive options especially for cantrips, which is the Magus’s bread and butter for spell strike. A divine Magus probably plays as an off healer with a slot or two for a big heal, and the other slots for buffs.

[Ascalaphus]

I don't think exactly symmetrical classes are the way to go here. But taking wave casting and martial progression and applying that to the war priest might work.

[vagrant-poet]

Give them expansive spellstrike for free to make up the difference in the two spell lists, and maybe edit the spells given by the Studious Spells.

I think it'd be good to go then.

[Amaya/Polaris]

HumbleGamer wrote:

For example, a lvl 16 magus would be able to use either regeneration and hymn of healing ( effortless concentration ) during a boss fight, resulting into

15+16 healings/ round + 16 temp hp per round.

Magus doesn't have Effortless Concentration as an option. Too much going on in their combat style for that, it seems.

[HumbleGamer]

Alfa/Polaris wrote:

HumbleGamer wrote:

For example, a lvl 16 magus would be able to use either regeneration and hymn of healing ( effortless concentration ) during a boss fight, resulting into

15+16 healings/ round + 16 temp hp per round.

Magus doesn't have Effortless Concentration as an option. Too much going on in their combat style for that, it seems.

Yeah, it has been told to me in the other thread.

He can stick with Regeneration + Life boost as firstround action, renouncing to either temporary hp and the necessity to sustain a spell.

But it would be able to trigger everything in one single round, which probably makes things even better ( no need for 14 char too, wider choice of spells from witch traditions, a familiar, high dc class due to magus intelligence, etc... ), so...

[nick1wasd]

As others have said, you'd definitely need that "use a save spell on Spellstrike" feat to use things like Chill Touch/Disrupt Undead, Haunting Hymn, and you'd probably want Adaptive Cantrip as well for good measure. With that, it might work well enough at early levels to get past the initial hump and then later on it's more of a sustain tank with HoTs and buff spell available. I think the 2 handed subclass would be the best probably for that, and it might look super cool

[Thunder999]

Honestly you'd be better off giving warpriest wave casting and magus' weapon/armour proficiency progression, spellstrike doesn't work well with the divine list and is significantly less useful when used with save based spells, as rather than using your superior weapon proficiency for a spell attack you're now adding an extra failure condition (missing) to a spell with a save that already won't have the best DC (because int, or here wis, isn't your key ability score and you eventually get worse spellcasting proficiency than normal casters).

I think the new spellhearts might fix the cantrip issue though, just grab a flaming star for produce flame on your divine magus.

[Kendaan]

Can Magis use Spell strike with Innate cantrips? If so, that opens a lot more options than just alternative cantrip.

[Shisumo]

Kendaan wrote:

Can Magis use Spell strike with Innate cantrips? If so, that opens a lot more options than just alternative cantrip.

The only restriction on Spellstrike is that you have to actually Cast a Spell. So magical actions that aren't actually spells don't count, but an innate cantrip absolutely would.

[Ezekieru]

Kendaan wrote:

Can Magis use Spell strike with Innate cantrips? If so, that opens a lot more options than just alternative cantrip.

If the innate cantrip is a spell attack? Yes. Can they with the 2nd level spell save feat for spell saves? Yes.

Only downside is, the casting ability score for innate spells is CHA, but that doesn't matter as much with Spellstrike.

[HumbleGamer]

Ezekieru wrote:

Only downside is, the casting ability score for innate spells is CHA, but that doesn't matter as much with Spellstrike.

Exactly!

I suppose that sometimes a magus could decide to Focus spell ( recharge + strike ) and cast electric arc, and if the enemy is far the maguc might decide to sniper with ray of frost.

These 2 are probably the only 2 spells I won't get through an ancestry feat ( or just as an innate spell ).

[Alchemic_Genius]

The divine spell list seems to have an assumption that you poach from other lists (as of yet, every divine casting class has a way of getting other tradition's spells to their list), so honestly, letting them get access to a curated list of non divine, battle themed spells via Studious Spells isnt the worst thing in the world, but I concur with some others here that I'd rather see a separate class with bounded casting and martial progression with abilities meant to actually work with the divine list than try to showhorn the magus to work with it.

That said, I do really want to make a starlit span magus/divine witch who taps their divine spells for support effects and firing searing light arrows