BDB: if you really, really like martial flex. The rolling flurry isn't until 2nd level (it modifies the brawler flurry which you get then) so the battle dancer part hardly matters on a 1 level dip.
SFUM: no. You're getting unarmed damage and cha to AC, the dip just slows these down. A bonus feat & stunning fist isn't enough to justify it.
OCS: maybe? Opportune parry and riposte - or dodging panache for that matter - can save you in a tight spot, or routinely add to your damage if you use waveblades or something. It gives you weapon finesse and the ability to forget Int prereqs which is nice.
Okayo Corsair Swashbuckler, probably.
I took a Brawler dip on my Bloodrager. Martial Flexibility is a big draw, but Brawlers can also ignore INT prerequisites , which was as much a draw for me.
So even though Battle Dancer may not be as good, regular Brawler might be worthwhile?
Otherwise yeah Swashbuckler will be good.
I think you'd need a very permissive GM to allow 2xCHA to AC.
Personally I don't mind the SF-Monk dip on a Paladin, Paladins are very feat starved, and a 1-or-2 level dip can really help with that .
The problem is you're already getting CHA to AC and Improved Unarmed Strike, so you're getting less out of this dip.
What about Sohei, does that stack with Scaled Fist? That'd add a nice ability as well.
Sohei is original monk only sadly, also both sohei and scaled fist replace quivering palm. Actually non-scaled fist is probably better; some day you might have a bonus to both wis and cha, and there's no rule against adding both of those to AC.
Sohei is original monk only sadly, also both sohei and scaled fist replace quivering palm.
Ah no worries then. I didn't have time to check properly.
Actually non-scaled fist is probably better; some day you might have a bonus to both wis and cha, and there's no rule against adding both of those to AC.
Well I guess it depends if you want to use Stunning Fist at all. The Irorian Paladin gets the AC bonus in light armour, so that's probably better than the AC bonus you'l get from the Monk levels anyway.
Ninja, 2 level dip?
The Swashbuckler helps your weak save, maintains BAB/hit die, gives you a Panache pool, and opens up the possibility of having Resolve via the Vengeful Heart Deed of Renown. I'm normally not a huge fan of Swashbucklers, but I like it the most out of the options you listed.
OP&R pwns. Dip Swashbuckler.
- UnMonk. Flurry of Blows is always awesome, and the way I read it, Iroran Paladin's Ki Pool get all the options a Monk's has, in addition to the DR thing, which means they get the "bonus attack when flurrying" option but can't normally use it. Thus the dip actually adds two bonus attacks.
The Invested Regent archetype, which trades away the bonus feat (probably Dodge), can boost saves for swift actions, allowing you to add your charisma bonus twice on a save (by spending from a pool that, conveniently, scales with charisma).
Dipping into Monk also enables getting Dragon Ferocity. Scaled Fist even offers Dragon Style as a Monk bonus feat. Note: For games reaching high-ish level, Pummeling Charge is an absolute must have, and makes other styles completely obsolete.
Pro tip 1: The scizore is a weapon that grants +1 AC. It can't be enchanted as a shield, but doesn't interfere with class features. Unless you want to TWF, you won't need the hand it occupies.
Pro tip 2: Handwraps don't stack with other items that enhance unarmed strikes, but they do stack with class features that do so, so they work with Divine Bond, even with the change from Divine Body.
Brawlers can also ignore INT prerequisites , which was as much a draw for me.
Monk can have that, too, with Sage Counselor. Only works for feats with Combat Expertise as a prereq, but I don't think there are any feats that require int but not CE that are of interest for a Paladin, apart from maybe Unsanctioned Knowledge.
The Irorian Paladin gets the AC bonus in light armour, so that's probably better than the AC bonus you'l get from the Monk levels anyway.
Nah, if you dip Monk, there is no choice, as light armor disables Flurry.
OP&R pwns.
Not with the low panache recovery of a 20-20 weapon.
SFUM: no. You're getting unarmed damage and cha to AC, the dip just slows these down. A bonus feat & stunning fist isn't enough to justify it.
Not quite entirely true… Scaled Fist is certainly a poor choice for the charisma to AC doesn’t stack with the charisma to AC from Irorian Paladin… the unarmed strike damage on the otherhand does stack. Irorian Paladin gets unarmed strike as the monk class feature treating their half of their Paladin levels as monk, a 1 level dip into monk is effectively +2 Paladin levels as far as unarmed strike damage is concerned.
I'm reading people post that the scaled fist monk AC bonus doesn't stack, and trying to understand why?
Monk = Add CHA to AC as untyped bonus
Paladin = Add one point of CHA to DEX for AC.Completely different.
Is it REALLY, though?
It is a bonus to your AC linked directly to your Charisma.
I would say that a Scaled Fist's CHA to AC walks like a duck, and the Paladin's CHA to DEX to AC quacks like a duck... but that's just me.
Let's see if the Warrior Poet or the Oracle have ever-so-slightly different words used to describe their ducks... or do all of these CHA to AC abilities stack because they happen to be worded differently?
And even IF these ducks happen to stack, so what? Now you cheesed your AC so high you will never be hit... you just screwed all your friends, but enjoy being the last man standing... standing alone.
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Sorry to belabor the questions ... I have a toon who is a scaled fist with a couple levels of paladin, and want to make sure I am doing this right.
One ability (monk) adds CHA to AC -- the other adds it to his DEX bonus to AC ... yes, the end point is that the CHA is added twice, but one is added as a DEX bonus while the other is added as a CHA bonus (different types). -- this would be similar to "deflection bonus equal to Charisma modified" and your charisma modifier from the FAQ.
The two bonuses even work differently, one is a flat bonus, the other is maxed at 1 per level.
One you lose if you are flatfooted, the other you do not.
Unfortunately, you are doing it wrong.
Here's the relevant FAQ
No. An ability bonus, such as "Strength bonus", is considered to be the same source for the purpose of bonuses from the same source not stacking. However, you can still add, for instance “a deflection bonus equal to your Charisma modifier” and your Charisma modifier. For this purpose, however, the paladin's untyped "bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws" from divine grace is considered to be the same as "Charisma bonus (if any)", and the same would be true for any other untyped "bonus equal to her [ability score] bonus" constructions.
A scaled fist monk adds
his Charisma bonus (if any) to his AC and his CMD.
An Iroran Paladin adds
1 point of his Charisma bonus (if any) per class level to his Dexterity bonus to his Armor Class.
Both these abilities are adding your Charisma bonus (if any). The Iroran Paladin is even more limited (by your class level) but it is still adding your Charisma bonus (if any). So they don't stack.
It would be different if one of them added your Charisma bonus (if any) as a scacred bonus. Or a deflection bonus equal to your Charisma bonus (if any). Or any other typed modifier. Those would stack with each other and with one untyped bonus. However per the FAQ untyped bonuses of the same ability modifier are considered the same source and don't stack.
Charisma bonuses definitely won’t ‘stack’ together.
Just to clarify this, the "CHA bonuses won't stack with each other" only applies to "untyped" bonuses.
A Scaled Fist Monk gets CHA to AC as an Utyped bonus. A Paladin using Smite Evil gets CHA to AC as a Deflection bonus. These two absolutely do stack, no questions asked .
Basically the "Things from the same source don't stack" rule only applies to the same types of bonuses, or for the same stat-bonus if they're both from Untyped bonuses.
So the question is: Is the Irorian Paladin's Confident Defence an Untyped bonus to AC or is it adding to a specific type of AC like Smite Evil is?
I WAS of the opinion that these wouldn't stack, but after re-reading the IRORIAN PALADIN and the rules for ARMOUR CLASS I find myself agreeing with those saying it would stack .