Need build advice from you cleric experts...

[JDawg75]

We're finishing up a super module and will be starting a new AP soon. Not sure which one yet. I'm going to play a cleric, and there are only a few things I know for sure I want a part of my build.

He will (almost certainly) be a dwarf.
He will grab the Divine Paragon archetype.
He will qualify for the Divine Scion PC.

I like the idea of being a battle cleric, but I'm not opposed to a support cleric at all. I like the idea of nabbing the Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, and Greater Weapon Specialization feats if possible. I would prefer a balanced character, I am not looking for a glass cannon build. We have a 20-point buy system, and will be starting at level 1.

Any and all build ideas are welcome! If there are questions or clarifications please ask.

J

[Scavion]

Reach weapon Clerics are cool. "Battle Clerics" can feel kinda bad when you get to the point where casting a spell is better than swinging your weapon every round. Reach weapon Clerics are a happy medium though since they can still whack folks with AOOs.

[Arkham Joker]

Dwarf along with Aasimar and Samsaran are the best cleric races.

Divine Paragon is one of the rare, half decent cleric archetypes - look carefully at the deities to get the most from it.

Divine Scion seems a fairly pointless PrC. The cost vs benefit just isn't there IMO. If you really want to go PrC then Divine Paragon grants free entry into Evangelist PrC and so crucially wouldn't mess around with any levelling up benefits.

Battle cleric is a bit of a myth. There are a couple of domains that can make it somewhat viable, but that would entail staying vanilla cleric to get both the domain powers, and even then the idea starts running out of steam very quickly. Warpriest is the choice here.

Reach clerics get a lot of love on forums but am I yet to be convinced. The concept requires additional ability point and feat investment to get it going, all just to offer the hope of an extra few HP damage with your longspear? The exception to this would be if you were doing a summoning build and so didn't require high WIS for your DCs as much and could afford some extra DEX investment for combat reflexes. But then a summoning build isn't really suited to the DP archetype so you're kind of back to square 1....

[avr]

Dwarves may well worship Torag, if so the blessed hammer feat helps them to combine spells and weapon strikes a little longer (persistent spell would help there too).

Or there's Dranngvit among specifically dwarven deities - a 'Lawful Neutral' deity who really should be evil, and who gives access to a spell (bloodsworn retribution) which keeps the battle cleric thing going through sheer weight of combat numbers. But she doesn't have an obedience, which makes for a wasted class feature from divine paragon - you probably shouldn't get that archetype with that deity.

On the subject of divine obediences Nethys has one of the best if you include the exalted stuff. Some interesting extra spells too, permanency for one.

[VoodistMonk]

Divine Paragon 5/
Evagelist 10

BAB +10
Base Saves +7/+6/+7
CL 14, 7th level spells

SIX BOONS!!!

Pick either Exalted or Sentinel boons going into Divine Paragon. Evagelist will give you the Evagelist boons, and Aligned Class will continue Divine Paragon to pick up your other boons.

By 15, you have all six. Pick a cool deity...

[SheepishEidolon]

Arkham Joker wrote:

Battle cleric is a bit of a myth. There are a couple of domains that can make it somewhat viable, but that would entail staying vanilla cleric to get both the domain powers, and even then the idea starts running out of steam very quickly. Warpriest is the choice here.

While warpriest is specifically designed to fill the "battle cleric" role, the cleric can at least regain some ground thanks to earlier access to spell levels. Put Magical Lineage on Divine Favor, and you can quicken it at level 7. It's expensive, but an option.

Or, if you don't mind slightly overpowered options and a weird mental image, equip your deity's favored weapon in one hand, and a lesser quicken rod plus a buckler in the other. Three swift action low level buffs (which still scale pretty well until level 15 or so) should be good enough for almost any battle.

[Lelomenia]

By the time Lesser Rod of Quickened Spell is reasonably affordable (maybe 12th or 13th level), you’ll have plenty of slots for Quickened Divine Favor even without Lineage.

[Belafon]

VoodistMonk wrote:

SIX BOONS!!!

Pick either Exalted or Sentinel boons going into Divine Paragon. Evagelist will give you the Evagelist boons, and Aligned Class will continue Divine Paragon to pick up your other boons.

By 15, you have all six. Pick a cool deity...

Unfortunately, that doesn't work without GM intervention.

Deific Obedience wrote:

If you have no levels in one of these prestige classes, you gain the boons marked as exalted boons. If you later take levels in sentinel or evangelist, you lose access to the exalted boons and gain access to the new boons appropriate to your class.

[VoodistMonk]

Divine Paragon's Devoted Domain both grants Deific Obedience, and changes it... and Devoted Domain is what is giving the Exalted or Sentinel boons, which is continued by the Evagelist's Aligned Class feature...

It is not the same as taking Deific Obedience all willy-nilly to pick up Exalted boons, then entering the Evagelist prestige class.

Either way, you are the first person to ever tell me this doesn't work the way I think it does. Whenever I am GM, this will always be considered a legal combination.

[Belafon]

If you aren't swayed by the arguments of people suggesting "play a different class," here are some thoughts on a Divine Paragon/Divine Scion battle cleric.

Might I suggest worshiping Iomedae? In addition to having some pretty good domains (including the very useful Tactics subdomain) she has a feat specific to her clerics and inquisitors that will be quite handy for what you want to do. Disciple of the Sword gives you Weapon Specialization (longsword) and lets you qualify for Greater Weapon Focus (longsword) and Greater Weapon Specialization (longsword) without fighter levels.

One thing you may want to discuss with your GM is allowing Divine Scion levels to stack with cleric levels when it comes to domain powers. Even though it has an ability called "domain specialization" for some silly reason they don't stack, even if you choose the same domain to specialize in that you have as a cleric domain.

[Arkham Joker]

Belafon wrote:

Unfortunately, that doesn't work without GM intervention.

It does work since as always.... SPECIFIC > GENERAL

At 2nd level, the evangelist must choose a class she belonged to before adding the prestige class to be her aligned class. She gains all the class features for this class, essentially adding every evangelist level beyond 1st to her aligned class to determine what class features she gains. She still retains the Hit Dice, base attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, and skill ranks of the prestige class, but gains all other class features of her aligned class as well as those of the evangelist prestige class.

The boons are a class feature of the DP cleric and thusly are advanced by the PrC.

[Belafon]

Arkham Joker wrote:

Belafon wrote:

Unfortunately, that doesn't work without GM intervention.

It does work since as always.... SPECIFIC > GENERAL

At 2nd level, the evangelist must choose a class she belonged to before adding the prestige class to be her aligned class. She gains all the class features for this class, essentially adding every evangelist level beyond 1st to her aligned class to determine what class features she gains. She still retains the Hit Dice, base attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, and skill ranks of the prestige class, but gains all other class features of her aligned class as well as those of the evangelist prestige class.

The boons are a class feature of the DP cleric and thusly are advanced by the PrC.

If any GM wants to allow the player to get multiple boons, that's their prerogative. It's outside the intended scope but the GM can always design appropriate responses. As for "as written," those boons are granted by the Deific Obedience feat; the class modifies it by granting them at a higher rate and allowing you to choose which type of boons to receive.

Divine Paragon wrote:

In order to retain access to her domain spells, the domain powers of her devoted domain, and the boons granted by Deific Obedience, the divine paragon must perform her obedience daily.

[Arkham Joker]

All irrelevant points....

The boons are a class feature like any other and as such are advanced....

I have been in PFS games about 2 years ago where it applied in regards to this exact case.

If anything has changed since then, I have yet to see a ruling.

[VoodistMonk]

I get that there are rules, and most of them supposedly exist for a reason... but what satisfaction comes from denying something like the aforementioned combination of Divine Paragon and Evangelist? Why would anyone ever say no to that?

It's a Cleric. They do god-stuff.

Boons are god-stuff.

Just let the Cleric have the stupid boons... it's level 15... six boons, three boons, two boons, no boons... doesn't matter, because it's already rocket tag at this level... the boons are not going to be what breaks the game, I can assure you...

[Mark Hoover 330]

So, we're looking for a "battle Cleric" and it must be a Dwarf with the Divine Paragon archetype? I mean, what more do you want as a suggestion of the build?

You've already got the race, class and archetype, with an inclination towards a PrC. Since you know you want the PC to be in combat, it is likely that you already understand the need to make your Wis secondary while your attack stat, whether Str or if you go with a Dex build for some reason, should be primary.

You picked Dwarf meaning you'll get a bonus to Con and Wis at the expense of a Cha penalty, so I'm also guessing you anticipate being close to/in melee but not using many Channel Energy uses per day. In Divine Paragon you've got a Devoted Domain so while you nominally get 2 Domains only one really matters so you've maybe got one choice left to make there.

I guess I'm just wondering: what do you need US for? You've got the basics down pat. If you're going into an AP, you'll likely be encountering lots of stock Bestiary monsters. This means you'll have some handy benchmarks to measure yourself against.

At level 1 can you reliably hit a 12 AC? Can you deal an average of 3.75 damage on a successful hit? If the answer is yes to both congratulations; you're a decent level 1 "battle cleric." As you level, if you continue hitting those markers you'll be fine.

Frankly, I'd suggest you take a weird twist and get yourself a Familiar quickly, preferably one that can use wands. The chief issue with nearly all Clerics is that they've got TONS of spells to buff themselves with, and many of those last for a minute or longer so you could cast them outside combat and wade in after, but this means you need to know combat is coming.

Having a familiar to scout around for trouble may tell you when to buff out of combat at lower level. As you advance if the familiar is capable of using wands on you, your PC can take advantage of some Target: Creature Touched type buffs without you having to use YOUR actions to do it.

Last but not least, Magic Stone. Keep this spell around for levels 1-3. If you've got a bonus from Dex at all, you've got a 50' Ranged attack you're reliably accurate with. It's ready for up to 3 shots/half an hour and deals an average of 4.5 damage per hit, before you factor in your own Str bonus or Undead type for extra damage.

[avr]

If you want a build planning the feats out here's one for a Torag-worshiper.

1: Iron will
3: Weapon focus (warhammer)
5: Persistent spell
7: Blessed hammer
9: Weapon spec. (WH)
11: Greater weapon focus (WH)
13: Quicken spell
15: Spell penetration or piercing spell
17: Greater weapon spec. (WH) - though you're really past the point where this is useful this is the earliest I can fit it in, you're going to want quicken and a spell pen boost.
19: ???

Persistent touch of darkness is useful once you get blessed hammer, persistent bestow curse becomes useful from level 9.

One thought though, besides not advancing your domain powers divine scion also doesn't work for the divine paragon's boost to when you gain divine boons. You'd get the first boon at level 5, then the second at level 16 rather than at the level 11 that'd happen if you stayed out of the PrC. Your archetype and prestige class are working against each other there.

[JDawg75]

Thanks,it makes sense to drop Divine Scion and pick up Evangelist or Exalted instead.

Reading what everyone has said and thinking through my character, I'd much rather be a support cleric. I didn't realize battle clerics are tough to keep relevant as they level up. Plus I've been a pretty flashy character in the last few APs, I'm fine letting other folks take the glory this time around.

I've never built a cleric in PF before, so it's difficult to know how to prioritize. I am still using Tark's guide, but it hasn't been updated since 2014 and there have been five years of 1e books since.

For example, Tark recommends prioritizing the ability scores for a support cleric like this: CON>WIS>CHA>STR>INT>DEX. Is that right?

Finally, are there recommended domains/subdomains for a support cleric? Right now I'm looking at Leadership, Archon(from law) and Defense.

J

[Arkham Joker]

JDawg75 wrote:

Thanks,it makes sense to drop Divine Scion and pick up Evangelist or Exalted instead.

Reading what everyone has said and thinking through my character, I'd much rather be a support cleric. I didn't realize battle clerics are tough to keep relevant as they level up. Plus I've been a pretty flashy character in the last few APs, I'm fine letting other folks take the glory this time around.

I've never built a cleric in PF before, so it's difficult to know how to prioritize. I am still using Tark's guide, but it hasn't been updated since 2014 and there have been five years of 1e books since.

For example, Tark recommends prioritizing the ability scores for a support cleric like this: CON>WIS>CHA>STR>INT>DEX. Is that right?

Finally, are there recommended domains/subdomains for a support cleric? Right now I'm looking at Leadership, Archon(from law) and Defense.

J

The best way to get the best help is rather than try and get other posters to design your PC for you, is to do it yourself using good ol fashioned research, initiative and common sense.... then present it here and ask for feedback.

It really isn't that hard, irrespective of whether you've "never built a PF1 cleric before"..

[avr]

JDawg75 wrote:

For example, Tark recommends prioritizing the ability scores for a support cleric like this: CON>WIS>CHA>STR>INT>DEX. Is that right?

That's one way to do it. It suggests that Tark was a bit paranoid about the support cleric being taken out on the 'kill the healer first' principle. I think most people would put Wis higher than Con - for bonus spells and for the occasional spell with a save DC. Few clerics do only support.

JDawg75 wrote:

Finally, are there recommended domains/subdomains for a support cleric? Right now I'm looking at Leadership, Archon(from law) and Defense.

I could make a case for at least a dozen domains/subdomains. Support is a very, very broad term. And any of the three you named can work.

[TarkXT]

avr wrote:

JDawg75 wrote:

For example, Tark recommends prioritizing the ability scores for a support cleric like this: CON>WIS>CHA>STR>INT>DEX. Is that right?

That's one way to do it. It suggests that Tark was a bit paranoid about the support cleric being taken out on the 'kill the healer first' principle. I think most people would put Wis higher than Con - for bonus spells and for the occasional spell with a save DC. Few clerics do only support.

Less paranoid and more understanding of clerics weaknesses. Having low Ref and low dex incentive meant you took the brunt of hp damage reflex saves straight to the face. Add on to that that the majority of your spells require you to be uncomfortably close to the frontline.

Going further from that, since 95% of the time you're casting spells not worrying about saves or SR and the other 5% you're utilizing those buffs yourself in close combat (maybe), there really isn't a need for high save dc's. It's a fair argument for bonus spells but after a while those slots start to lose meaning so it comes down to personal need.

[Arkham Joker]

An excellent guiding principle of optimal cleric builds I once read was to pretend that you were another class and build that.

For example, I once wanted to play a stealthy, sneaky cleric, so I "pretended" I was a Rogue and went light armour Herald Caller with the Trickery domain, good DEX and used the Creepy Doll + Swift as Shadows alternative racial traits and with a Half Deck as a Sacred Keepsake.....

What with all my stealth add ons, the odd Invisibility spell here and there and Sacred Summoning I had some of the best fun I've ever had.... the opposition didn't know what was going on!

[Belafon]

Like avr said "Support" encompasses a wide variety of builds. Here's a couple of possibilities. They may not be the "most powerful" but I think they could be fun to play.

Evangelist archetype: If you don't have a bard in your party, this is a great way to get those in-combat buffs out. Your primary stat will be Wisdom, since your spontaneous spells are all control-type spells and you will want to have a high DC. You will need to take Lingering Performance since you don't actually get many rounds of performance, especially at low levels. Don't forget to prepare healing spells!

Blossoming Light archetype: It's easy to see this as a "healer" archetype but it is a lot more. Especially if you're playing in an AP where you are unambiguously the "good guys" you have all kinds of options. It synergizes really well with the Bless Equipment line of feats thanks to the large number of channels. Once you are in combat start handing out bane to your allies from Bless Equipment, other buffs as necessary, and channeling to heal allies or to harm evildoers. Charisma would be your primary stat.

As for domains, Liberation has some really good powers as does Luck and its subdomains.

[Ryze Kuja]

JDawg75 wrote:

For example, Tark recommends prioritizing the ability scores for a support cleric like this: CON>WIS>CHA>STR>INT>DEX. Is that right?

You should prioritize your abil scores Wis >>> Cha = Con > Dex = Str >>>>> Poop > Int, and I second going for a reach build. It's super minimal feat investment for a lot of effectiveness.

[Scavion]

Glory/Heroism Subdomain is stronk for a team player Cleric. Even more so if you're stacking Evangelist on it too. Channel Energy isn't worth putting much stock into since a Wand of Cure Light Wounds does a better job and doesn't jerk your stat priority sideways.

[Belafon]

One thought to add in here:

If you're playing a support cleric in a standard Adventure Path (your GM isn't making a lot of changes to the NPCs) you really, really don't need to be optimized. A stat distribution of 11/10/12/12/16/14 certainly isn't optimized but it is plenty sufficient for an AP. The most important thing is your spell choices.

So if you have a character concept you like, try to find something that builds around that.

I'm not saying you shouldn't optimize, (I probably wouldn't use that stat array above) and I'm not saying there's no such thing as a bad build (11 Wis cleric!). What I am saying is that Paizo APs are designed around an average level of player skill and character creation. Figure out what you want your cleric to do first. There's no "best" answer to that question. Then find options that fit well with that concept.

[TarkXT]

Ryze Kuja wrote:

JDawg75 wrote:

For example, Tark recommends prioritizing the ability scores for a support cleric like this: CON>WIS>CHA>STR>INT>DEX. Is that right?

You should prioritize your abil scores Wis >>> Cha = Con > Dex = Str >>>>> Poop > Int, and I second going for a reach build. It's super minimal feat investment for a lot of effectiveness.

Dont do this.

The statblocks fine. The reach clerics fine. Together they're bad.

Reach clerics, and battle clerics in general, are melee oriented. Dumping your combat stats for pure caster and slightly more energy channel are the opposite of what you want.

[Azothath]

Your choices in divine casters are cleric, druid, oracle, and shaman.
Research is good so read two guides for two classes to get an idea of your options and what appeals to you. Note that some classes or specializations came out after the guides and they don't cover everything.
Basically it's caster or combat or mixed focus. You've chosen caster or mixed(core Cleric with some weapon feats).

I'd ask your party members
a) what they're gonna be,
b) are you guys gonna rely on me to do all or most of your healing.
The answers will guide your choices. If the party is 50-75% martials then that covers most combat but at 3/4BAB and second line martial you should be competent with a Ranged, Reach, or Supporting(assume adjacent to ally) attack.

For ability scores, start with a high primary casting ability score. Casters will focus on Cha next, otherwise for martials Cha comes third. Then it comes down to armor(Hvy or Lgt) which cue a Str or Dex focused build. If you are thinking about Str > Wis etc, then you might dive into Warpriest etc as you are changing core class competencies. aka why be a cleric with low Wis?
Str builds are easier and less complex, tending to do more damage per round. It's how the basic game works. Dex centered builds are more complex and take feats and melee conditions to keep the damage high. Ranged Dex builds are probably the best as you're at distance and not likely to be attacked BUT they are feat intensive requiring at least 2-3 feats (which is why you see humans, half-elves(weapons) and half-orcs(orc horn bow) here). HPs are always a concern so Con gets prioritized in the mix depending on how often you think youll be attacked in melee combat.
Ability score blocks: 18,14,12,10,8,8(5); 17,15,12,10,10,8(5); 17,14,12,10,10,10(6); 16,16,10,10,10,10(6); 16,14,14,10,10,10(7); 16,14,13,12,10,10(7); go from specialist to generalist.

I'd say the key to ranged spell combat is MMag Reach spell(+1 to +3) with touch attacks(cures and Bad Touches), Spectral Hand, Long Arm, MMag Intensify spell(+1)(to up that dice cap on those reach spells). So don't dismiss Magical Lineage.

Skill Points: For the first 3 levels you will be putting 1 rank in Ride, Perception, and a Craft, Perform, or Profession skill.

Cleric's Kit $37.75 (backpack, bedroll, belt pouch, candles (10), cheap holy text, flint and steel, iron pot, mess kit, 50ft silk rope(+$9.5){knotted}, soap 1/2lb, spell component pouch, torches (10), trail rations (5), waterskin, wooden holy symbol for $16+9.5). Add; bandolier(holds 8 small items, Mov actn to retrieve) $0.5, bucket(or seat) 1gal $0.5, glass flask (3) $0.09, honey 1lb $1, mint 1lb $0.05, silver weapon blanch $5, spring-loaded wrist sheath(potion or scroll) $5, talc powder(invis detection) 1/2lb $0.01, tea pot $0.1.

Get a heavy war horse with gear for movement and protection.

Your weapon will be driven by class, weapon proficiencies(no -4 to hit!), & racial weapon proficiencies. Don't immediately fall for a deity's favored weapon. (a General List for First level follows)
With high Str-- Melee & STR≥14: Greatsword $50, or Earthbreaker $40. Reach: Glaive-guisarme(2hnd, brace, rch, tgt Ride(-2)) $12, Bardiche(2hnd, brace, rch, +2 rst sundr) $13, Horsechopper(2hnd, rch, trip) $10, Bec de Corbin(2hnd, brace, rch, +2 sundr Med&Hvy Armr) $15, Tripoint double-edge Sword(2hnd, rch) $12. Gandasa(1hnd) $15, Longsword(1hnd) $15, Battle Axe(1hnd) $10, War Hammer(1hnd) $12, Sansetsukon(2hnd, block, disarm) $8. Defense: Heavy steel shield with spikes $30, Sansetsukon(2hnd, block, disarm) $8, Bill(2hnd, rch, brace, disarm, +1AC Fgt Def, tgt Ride(-1)) $11, Tonfa(lgt, block) $1.
With High Dex-- @1st Shortbow $30{way cheaper than a comp longbow} and 20 cold iron arrows in a quiver $2. Rapier(lgt, WpnFnss) $20, Boarding Axe(lgt, WpnFnss, +2 Clmb soft surface) $6, Elven Curve Blade(2hnd, WpnFnss) $80, Tonfa(lgt, block) $1. You can get a better bow after an adventure or two otherwise borrow a party member's bow as they can't use both at once ya know! Spread out those resources. Magic stone is killer at low levels.
I'd seriously think about dwarven racial weapons if you get those.

I hope that's been helpful

[Mark Hoover 330]

At level 1 you need a melee or ranged attack at +2 that deals 3.75 damage. By level 10, you need to up your game to either a melee or ranged attack to +14 and delivers 31.5 damage. A vanilla cleric has 5 feats by level 10, no class abilities that add attack or damage bonuses and their spells are nearly all a Standard action to cast.

1. Focus your build on an attack stat: either plan to finesse (harder) or prioritize Str (easier) but make sure you up your attack stat as much as you can, as often as you can, if you're going to be a "battle cleric" of any kind.

2. Buffs that last 1 minute/level: Clerics have a LOT of these, but they're all either pretty minor or they're primarily defensive. Even still, these are ideal for casting outside of combat. However, then you have to anticipate combat...

3. Train to anticipate combat: vanilla Clerics don't get Perception, so pick this up with a Trait for certain. Then review ALL of the divination spells. I didn't say some, I said ALL. From level 1 on you should be stocking yourself with as many scrolls of Divination spells as you can muster...

4. Consider some way of writing scrolls in your Downtime: are you kidding me? Clerics, more than Wizards, should be the supreme warehousers of spell scrolls. Their best spells are either buffs or out of combat utilities, until much higher levels. If you could write cheap, one-off spell scrolls for stuff like Bless, Detect Evil, Divine Favor, Face of the Devourer, Hedging Weapons, Ironbeard, Know the Enemy, Magic Stone, Obscuring Mist, Protection from Evil, Remove Sickness, and Shield of Faith at level 1, that'd be good.

5. Clerics need to be MORE prepared than prepared spellcasters: You get a couple spells per level, per day. You also get 1 Domain spell. 1. Your spell resources are extremely precious, so hoard them with your life. See the above mentions of cheap scrolls; supplement these with wands and potions when you can.

A level 1 vanilla Cleric with a Dex of 12, a scroll of Magic Stone, and a sling with sling bullets is attacking with 3 shots at 50' from the battle lines with a +2 attack that deals 4.5 average damage on a hit. Those 3 shots, if not expended all at once, will last you another 29 minutes and several rounds more.

What level 1 adventure do you know that lasts MORE than half an hour, unless every encounter is spaced out across, say, a forest?

The reason why Warpriest has Swift action Fervor is b/c all the good combat buffs for Clerics last 1 minute, maybe more... but they ALL take a Standard to cast. If you're set on playing some kind of Cleric, not a Warpriest, you WILL have to use those combat buffs and you WILL need to cast them as Standard actions.

Know. What's. Coming.

Your primary spellcasting stat is Wis. With the Traits Reactionary, and Seeker, your Wis based character now has Perception as a Class skill and a +1 bonus on it, alongside +2 to Initiative. You should have some of the best eyes in the party and if you either have a round to prepare or get to go first in a combat, you've got one of those fancy buff spells on yourself.

So, how do you put it all together?

Well, I will leave this to better builders than me. Personally for myself I'd prioritize a Dwarf with high Str and Wis, ignore Cha, and load up on my AC as much as possible. The stats I'd shoot for would be 13 Str, 12 Dex, 12 (10 +2 race) Con, Int 10, Wis 18 (16 +2 Race), Cha 8 (10 -2 race) for a 15 point buy, or else raise Str to 14, Dex to 13, and Int to 12 for a 20 point buy, but I'm pretty bad at building PCs.

Still, with that 20 point build (14, 13, 12, 12, 18, 8) my "battle cleric" with Reactionary and Seeker has an Initiative of +3, a Perception of +9, attacks in melee with +2 and attacks from range at +1. With a hammer in my hand I've got about a 55% chance to hit any corporeal foe at this level and deal 6.5 bludgeoning damage.

My level 1 feat is Improved Initiative. One of my 2 Domains is Rune, for Scribe Scroll as a Bonus Feat. After prioritizing armor and a melee weapon, I'm going to ask my GM if I can spend my remaining starting gold (if any) on cheap, 1/2 price scrolls. Finally I'll get a sling, some Cold-Iron bullets, and a dagger.

The hope is that, as a "battle cleric" I'm spotting ambushes, checking for traps, spotting footprints and so on to know when a fight is coming. I also want to be armed with every possible buff to ensure that I'm keeping pace with the other martials of the party. I have Initiative +7 and going first every round I'm buffing or making a Charge attack. With an Int of 13 I've got 3 skill ranks/level, so Perception, Survival, and Knowledge: Religion.

From there, I build on these core concepts. I eventually work in Extended Spell and Quick Draw, so I can pull a scroll, cast it and have a Longspear at hand for AoOs. Then, once I'm buffed and in adjacent melee I'm dropping my spear and hammering my foes to smithereens. Extend Spell in my scrolls means I've got lengthy duration buffs and don't have to waste rounds on those spells in the future.

[Ryze Kuja]

If you have two other martials in your group, and you're playing a reach cleric, you should talk to them about all three of you guys going for Crit-fishing weapons and getting Combat Reflexes, Outflank, Seize The Moment, and possibly even Gang Up. Then you just need Exotic Weapon Proficiency Fauchard and a Keen Fauchard and you're in business for putting out the hurty hurt. You 3 just became a blender.

Go 14+2racial = 16 Wis, 14 Str, 14 Dex, 12+2racial = 14 Con, 14-2racial = 12Cha, 8 Int

You still get to play as a Support Cleric with stats like this. You won't have the super max damage that a 20str reach cleric could have, but you're mainly there to provoke AoO's for your allies, and capitalize on the AoO's that they provoke for you. And you can always buff Bull's Str until you get your +4 Belt.

[Minigiant]

VoodistMonk wrote:

Divine Paragon 5/

Evagelist 10

SIX BOONS!!!

I did this with a Madness Cleric of Tsukiyo (Evangelist and Exalted), it is very fun. Clerics did not get capstones when I played it so I wasn't giving anything up for it but even now a Clerics capstone is pretty weak so still think it would be worth it

[Mark Hoover 330]

Yet another way to go for a "battle" Cleric: take a domain/archetype that gives you a Familiar or an Animal Companion.

Vermin domain from level 1 gets you a Greensting Scorpion familiar and Vermin Empathy. You can either charm and train other giant vermin to come with you or take the Strength domain for Enlarge Person and share that to your familiar. Now you have a viable flanker.

Animal domain eventually gets you an Animal Companion. Boon Companion makes up the level deficit for it's advancement. Now you have a viable flanker.

In either case, finding a way to share Outflank means you're +4 in a flank with this creature. If it's an Animal Companion and your BAB is high enough, Pack Flanking is pretty nice so you don't have to worry about positioning anymore.

The other nice thing about either of these options is Share Spells. If you don't trade that ability away, you can buff your familiar/animal companion instead of, or perhaps as well as, yourself. The tough thing about playing a cleric is that a significant amount of your buffs are Personal spells. If you take a Reach weapon, have Outflank and possibly Pack Flanking, you've got a battle beast fighting for you and you're casting spells on IT while making AoOs on anything that gets too close.