I'd go with a Slayer.
With a small party every character should be able to fill multiple roles. Neither of your teammates really do that well and neither does a rouge. The bard normally relies on having teammates to buff, which you don’t have. You also have no source of healing especially condition removal. The last weakness in your party is lack of skills other than knowledge skills.
There is one bard archetype that might work and that is archeologist bard. It trades away all performance for a luck bonus to just about everything. Go with a DEX based build and take fencing grace to get DEX to damage and your combat ability will be fine. You will be a better rouge than an actual rouge except you will not rely on sneak attack for damage. Make sure to take lingering performance to triple the time your luck bonus is active. For traits take Fates Favored to boost your luck bonus and Criminal to get disable device as a class skill. Last thing is to make sure that heroism is one of your second level spells. Combined with Archeologist Luck it will give you a +5 bonus to just about everything.
Good old Ranger... probably a Freebooter to provide some buffs. Could be rocking Precise Shot and Rapid Shot with your RCS feats, and Freebooters still get Endurance. You have 2nd level spells assuming a 14 Wisdom... not anything great, but better than no spells. Gives access to a decent selection of wands.
Your skills and saves are decent, archery is a strong choice, and should be relatively easy to throw together. When picking spells, start with Gravity Bow. For archery, I like Half-Orcs with Sacred Tattoos and Fate's Favored for the +2 luck bonus to all saves, and Darkvision, and bite attack if you want it for emergencies, and obviously instant access to the Orc HornBow.
If you want to go Bard... Arrowsong Minstrel is just waking up at level 7... Bardic Performance is a move action (which is huge), you can have Deadly Aim and Ranged Trip, if you VMC'ed Fighter you get Armor Training 1... as a Shaman's Apprentice Half-Orc with Sacred Tattoos/Fate's Favored, you have Endurance as a bonus feat and a +2 luck bonus to all your saves, Darkvision, and the HornBow is just Heirloom Weapon (trait) away or the Ioun Stone like everyone else. VMC Fighter and Endurance begs for the Armor Master trait to be wearing Mithral Breastplate. Speaking of VMC Fighter, it really picks up at 11 with Weapon Training, where now you can pick up Ace Trip at 13. None of that matters for a one time adventure, though.
A Flying Blade Swashbuckler could do ranged and melee combat with a Starknife. As a Human you could start with Noble Scion of War to key Initiative off of Charisma, and Desna's Shooting Star to get attack and damaged keyed off Charisma, as well. By level 7 you have Resolve via the Vengeful Heart Deed of Renown, Scion of War, Desna's Shooting Star, Quickdraw, Weapon Focus, Point Blank Shot, Improved Critical, and could even be starting down the Startoss Style chain.
An Evangelist Cleric, focused on Summoning could do god's work in a small party... your 9th level Divine casting balances the Wizard. You provide extra support for melee via summons and buff everyone (including your summoned creatures) with your Performance.
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Hi folks,
I have been out of the game for a while and we are playing a oneshot this evening.
I have some older chars but i would like your advice on the matter:Pathfinder Society Adventure (in the Linnorm Kingdoms)
Level 7
3 players, a wizard and a plain fighter.
My char would be the third of the bunch.I'm leaning heavily towards a bard or rogue.
I like the bard more, but i'm not sure he would be optimal because we only have one combatant and the wizard will not profit from buffs THAT much.I can fling something together other than a rogue or bard, if you have some cool ideas.
Thanks in advance for helping out a starved out (RPG-wise) comrade ;)
Go bard.
Human Bard Archer, feats: Point blank shot, Precise shot, Rapid shot, Arcane strike, Riving strike.
Before combat - cast Heroism on yourself and the Fighter (and Wizard if you have the spell-slots)
Round 1 - Haste (standard) + Inspire Courage (move)
Round 2 - Arcane strike (swift) + Full attack 4 arrows (full-round)
Round 3+ - repeat round 2
You're giving yourself and the Fighter +5 to hit, +2 to damage and an extra attack with Heroism, Inspire courage and Haste. You're giving yourself another +2 to damage with Arcane strike, and giving enemies -2 to saves vs the Wizard's spells. You're also giving everyone +2 to all saves with Heroism.
If you want to get in melee with the Fighter you can, but remember you're swquishier than they are. I'd recommend a reach weapon Combat reflexes, Arcane strike and Rivig strike. You could go Power attack and Toughness for a STR-based damage build, or you could go Elven branched spear and Weapon finesse for a DEX-based more defensive build.
Honestly, I'd hedge you in another direction. A divine caster of some sort. I'd go with a Shaman, just so that you can get access to healing, divine buff spells, hexes and even an animal companion (if you spend feats) all in one go. You can even build your Shaman to be a melee combatant if you want to.
Personally, I like to combine the Crashing Waves ability from the Waves Spirit and the Benthic Metamagic feat (if necessary) to force enemies to save or be knocked prone with my spells. I also enjoy using Bonded Mind + Share Spells to cast my personal buff spells on party members, but since they are teamwork feats, you'll have to convince the others to take Bonded Mind.
Honorable mention:
Arsenal Chaplain Warpriest or Sohei Monk has Weapon Training by level 7.
Cult Master Mesmerist gets Leadership at level 7. Lol.
Anything involving 5 levels of Bolt Ace Gunslinger and a PelletBow can probably be made effective at level 7...
@Deathless One
Nice idea, could you guide me to the feats necessary for the shaman to chose an animal companion?
Sure can: Nature Soul and Animal Ally OR you could take Exotic Heritage and Eldritch Heritage (Sylvan Sorcerer) though that one is a bit iffy. Either way, it is a two feat investment that also requires Boon Companion to bring the companion up to full strength (or near so). Animal Ally is limited in selection while Sylvan Sorcerer has better choices.
It is a big feat investment, but you get those feats back with the Companion's selection of feats, plus the added warm body and bucket of hitpoints.
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A Dawnflower Dervish Bard relies more on self-buffs than other Bards; here's a 6th lvl build. But it really depends on what you think the focus of this particular adventure is going to be.
[EDIT] The linked build is for a Hells Rebels PC, which has an extra feat (Persuasive) and a single extra skill point from Rebellion boons. Gear is rather sparse due to events in the AP so far.
The character is essentially a tough melee combatant with good social skills. With Battle Dance, Heroism, Cast's Grace and Arcane Strike, she has +18 to hit and does 1d4+12 damage; it's a good PC to play if you like to hit on bad d20 rolls.
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@Deathless One
Nice idea, could you guide me to the feats necessary for the shaman to chose an animal companion?
Sure can: Nature Soul and Animal Ally OR you could take Exotic Heritage and Eldritch Heritage (Sylvan Sorcerer) though that one is a bit iffy. Either way, it is a two feat investment that also requires Boon Companion to bring the companion up to full strength (or near so). Animal Ally is limited in selection while Sylvan Sorcerer has better choices.
It is a big feat investment, but you get those feats back with the Companion's selection of feats, plus the added warm body and bucket of hitpoints.
If you are a Orc or Half-orc you can also take the Beast Rider feat for more animal compagnion choices and treat your level as two higher in regards to your animal compagnion.
I would go with a class that can pad up your numbers a bit with an Animal Companion or some summons. Probably Druid would be your best bet.
I have one feat left, can you gimme a hint what would work well for the Archeologist?
Thanks!
There is one bard archetype that might work and that is archeologist bard. It trades away all performance for a luck bonus to just about everything. Go with a DEX based build and take fencing grace to get DEX to damage and your combat ability will be fine. You will be a better rouge than an actual rouge except you will not rely on sneak attack for damage. Make sure to take lingering performance to triple the time your luck bonus is active. For traits take Fates Favored to boost your luck bonus and Criminal to get disable device as a class skill. Last thing is to make sure that heroism is one of your second level spells. Combined with Archeologist Luck it will give you a +5 bonus to just about everything.
For feats I would go with Weapon finesse, weapon focus, fencing grace, and lingering performance. If you are not human that takes up all your feats for a 7th level bard. If you are human consider extra performance. The Archeologist bard does not get as many rounds of performance as other bards, but lingering performance effective triples that. So extra performance gives more bang for the buck than usual.
DEX should be your high stat followed by CHA. If your spells are mostly buffs and utility spells you don’t need a CHA higher than enough to cast your spells. Invisibility would be a good choice as well. The idea is that you are actually a bard you are a magical thief. Don’t bother putting anything into any perform skills.
I agree with nearly everything Mysterious Stranger said.
The only thing I'd change is that I'd try to get to 16 CHA if possible. Getting an extra 3rd pevel spell is going to make a noticeable difference.
Eg. Halfling, 20 point buy, +1 DEX at level 4: S-9, D-18, C-14, I-12, W-10, C-16
You're a front-line character so I'd put the FCB into HP.
Or for funsies, go Human or Half-Elf or Half-Orc . The bonus feat or alternate racial trait gets you proficiency with whips, then you go Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Fencing Slashing Grace and WHIP MASTERY. It's honestly probably not quite as good as the Fencing Grace build, but it'll definitely be cooler ;)
I haven't played her since I was a new player, but I have an archaeologist bard. When I rebuilt her, I gave her a starting level of Inspired Blade Swashbuckler. It gives Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus Rapier as bonuses, so you only have to spend one feat to get immediate dex to damage.
My build won't really work for you since I went for a trip and disarm build and you don't have enough allies to take advantage of that. But if you want to go into melee at all with a dex build as a bard, I suggest the Swash level. Even at only 6 levels of bard, you'll have everything important from the archaeologist archetype already. Especially since you noted seeing level 8 is unlikely.
But if you want to go into melee at all with a dex build as a bard, I suggest the Swash level. Even at only 6 levels of bard, you'll have everything important from the archaeologist archetype already. Especially since you noted seeing level 8 is unlikely.
That's not necessarily a bad idea, but you'd be trading away your thirdrd level spells for the Opportune Parry and Riposte deed. Opportune Parry is likely something you'll use every combat, while you'd be limited to 2 third level spells per day.
Not saying one is better than the other, just something to think about.
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I'm a big fan of extended Good Hope, so my preference would be to drop the ring of protection to +1 and pick up a lesser metamagic rod of extend spell, with 3000 gp left over.
[EDIT] For a bard, a Circlet of Persuasion is worth considering.
For magic items you don’t have a headband of CHA. Drop down the value of some of the other items if you need to but that should be included.
Another thing to keep in mind is that the only way the wizard is going to be able to contribute to combat is with spells. Since you have a smaller than normal party that means you will need to be on the front lines. You are planning on focusing on archery and your spell selection seems to focusing on a lot of in combat spells. Both of this activity will provoke AoO, and you don’t have the resources to reduce the chance of that occurring. Bards have no way of avoiding AoO when using ranged combat, and you don’t have the spare feats for combat casting. Sure taking a 5 foot step back can help, but that option is not always available. Since you are limited to light armor your AC is not going to be that high so there is a good chance that any AoO will hit. I think you may be better of going for a DEX to damage melee build than focusing on archery.
As far as spells go there are a couple of things to factor in. First is that bards are spontaneous 6/9 casters. That means you gain access to higher level spells slower than the wizard. You also get fewer spells and are extremely limited in the spells you know. That last thing to consider is that the DC of your saves is going to be lower than normal. Because your CHA is not as high as it could be and the fact that you are a level behind is gaining spell levels the DC of your spells are going to be at least 2 behind the wizard. Combined with the fact that casting spells is combat is dangerous for you, you should avoid using spells in combat. Use your spells to avoid combat or to overcome obstacles. Spell like Heroism that last a long time and can be cast out of combat are another story entirely.
When you are choosing spells don’t waste time with things the wizard can easily do or that they can do better. Look for spells that the wizard may overlook or that boost your role as a magical thief. Gaseous Form is a lot better for your character than Haste or Confusion. Combine Gaseous Form with Invisibility and there is very little that is going to be able to prevent you from getting in somewhere unspotted. For a defensive spell consider Mirror Image. It has a duration of 1 min per level so you can often cast it before you are expecting a tough fight.
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I slightly disagree with Mysterious Stranger.
Your CHA isn't going to be high enough to have enemies reliably fail saves, so the main thing you need to incrrase your CHA for is to get bonus spells. At level 7 a 16 CHA is enough to give you a bonus spell in your highest level of spells. By level 10 you want a +2 headband, by level 13 you want a +4 headband, by 16 you want a +6 headband. That'll give you the bonus spell-slot at your highest level of spells for the entire game, you won't need more than that.
Besides that it mostly looks good. Remember your Armour, Ring of Protection and Amulet of Natural Armour all do basically the same thing. You could buy a +2 Ring for 8,000gp, or you could buy a +1 Ring for 2,000gp and a +1 Amulet for 2,000gp and you've got the same AC bonus for only 4,000gp.
Eg. +4 Armour = 4 squared × 1,000gp = 16 × 1,000gp = 16,000gp
Amulet/Ring bonus = <bonus> squard × 2,000gp
Eg. +3 Ring = 3 squared × 2,000gp = 9 × 2,000gp = 18,000gp
+1 Armour/Shield = 1,000gp
+1 Amulet/Ring = 2,000gp
+2 Armour/Shield = 4,000gp. Upgrading from a +1 Armour/Shield is 3,000gp
+3 Armour/Shield = 9,000gp. Upgrading from a +2 Armour/Shield is 5,000gp
+2 Amulet/Ring = 8,000gp. Upgrading from a +1 Amulet/Ring is 6,000gp
+4 Armour/Shield = 16,000gp. Upgrading from a +3 Armour/Shield is 7,000gp
+5 Armour/Shield = 25,000gp. Upgrading from a +4 Armour/Shield is 9,000gp
+3 Amulet/Ring = 18,000gp. Upgrading from a +2 Amulet/Ring is 10,000gp
+4 Amulet/Ring = 32,000gp. Upgrading from a +3 Amulet/Ring is 14,000gp
+5 Amulet/Ring = 50,000gp. Upgrading from a +4 Amulet/Ring is 18,000gp
Obviously there might be other things that you wajt to do with your defensive items, but if it's just straight AC you're going for that's the economic way of doing things.
The DEX belt is probably more variable because if you're a DEX-based character you'll likely get it when you need it for attack upgrades, and if you're not you probably won't bother with it.
Also the Ring of Protection gives a Deflection bonus, which is better than other bonuses, so I might get a +2 Ring before a +3 Armour even though it's slightly more expensive.
Just some guidelines, don't need to follow it like a bible.
A character’s highest stat should be the one that gives him the most benefit. For casters that is usually their casting stat, but not in this case. In this build DEX should be his highest stat because it affects a lot more. It is his primary combat stat; it also gives him AC and boosts a lot of the skills he will be using. Having an 18 DEX and a 14 CHA is more beneficial than having a 16 DEX and 16 CHA. He also needs other stats to be affective. He should also have at least a 14 CON. Since he is starting at 7th he does get 1 stat increase. Assuming a 20pt buy he could start with a 15, 14, 14 before racial adjustments and have 3 points left over. The stat increase from level 4 can boost the 15 to a 16 so he can start with an 18 in DEX. If he is going for an archery based build he could put the extra 3 into STR to get a +1 damage from using a composite short bow. This would also increase his carrying capacity, which he will need to carry all the arrow he will need.
I also recommended a headband of CHA which will give him the extra spell, but still allow him to get an 18 DEX. To me that is a much better use of resources than spending stat points to get a 16 CHA. The only realistic way he has to get a 16 CHA is to play a race that gets a stat bonus to both DEX and CHA. Most of the races that do that are small and take a penalty to STR. Of the core races Halfling are about the only one that fits that bill. That means his bow only does 1d4 (with an 11 STR) points of damage vs 1d6+1 (with a 13 STR and composite short bow). Haflings favored class bonus for bard is not that good which would be another reason to avoid them.
Human or half elf would probably be the optimal choice for race. Both have a floating stat bonus that can go to DEX. Humans get an extra spell known as a favored class bonus and half elves can take this as well. Half elf could also trade out adaptability for ancestral arms to get proficiency with long bows for a little more damage. If you don’t want extra cantrips they can also increase your rounds of performance to get an extra 3 round of luck.
If you are not stuck with a core race, catfolk and vishkanyas are two races that have bonuses to Dex and Cha and a penalty to Wis rather than STr. While a penalty to Wis can hurt for Will saves, it is better than the more common penalties to Str or Con.