| ThecrimeForceDragon |
A friend is talking about doing a mid level mystic Adventure game.
The rules are we have to come with a hero and create 3 legends about them
The 3 legends will then shape are characters mystic abilities.
The thing is I'm using a character I played in a one shot that stole the show. A Human fighter Archer that was Optimize for damage
I know there are some classes that can crank out even more damage with a bow , but I like to stick to being a fighter
Going Advance weapon Training
My question is what feat and what racial features should I chose .
It's been a while since the one shot and I am not sure if there any thing new that would help me.
| Wonderstell |
It's been a while since the one shot and I am not sure if there any thing new that would help me.
Archery is a pretty stagnant playstyle so whatever feats you had for the one shot should be fine. Unless you'd like something else than full-attacking you're good to go.
Some slight powercreep for archery is the Orc Hornbow, which is more damage than the Longbow. And some major powercreep for fighters is the Warrior Spirit Advanced Weapon Training.
Firebug
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A legend about how reactive of a shooter you are? Basically, Snap Shot/Improved + Overwatch Style / Tactician / Vortex.
Half-orc gets you the Hornbow as mentioned as a martial weapon, and there is always fate's favored(trait) and Sacred Tattoo(replaces orc ferocity).
Elf is thematic, and you can take Dusksight to get some rerolls on concealment due to dim light (though its poorly worded). Half-orc can as well, but they trade out Weapon Familiarity.
| ThecrimeForceDragon |
@ Wonderstell
It's been about 4 To 5 years. It was a level 20 one shot. In this game I'll only be at level 10. basically my spirit is being summon to help a kingdom / country in turmoil along with the other players / Pcs
@ Firebug
Na nothing so fancy just pure raw damage output. I had a lot of static damage boosters and I had a lot of attacks and ...some very generous dice on two full rounds of attach I rolled a natural 20 about 8 times and with the fighters capstone I auto confirmed them so I delt a ridiculous amount of damage to the boss and killed it in two turns
But keep in mind I had a 20th level character worth of wealth to spin on items
| VoodistMonk |
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If damage is your focus, then I think Weapon Master Fighter is a solid choice...
Possibly even work in a level of Living Monolith for 3/day Enlarge Person shenanigans (store size Large arrows of various types in your Efficient Quiver).
I know you asked for help with a Human archer... but I prefer Half Orcs for archery builds... instant access to the Orc HornBow, Darkvision, Endurance, +2 Luck bonus to all saves, bite attack for emergencies...
That free Endurance feat from Shaman's Apprentice is usually just used for sleeping in armor, but when you want to dip Living Monolith... free prerequisites! Probably going to pick up Iron Will regardless of your build, so the rest is just skills.
Anyways, if your campaign lasts past level 13, Weapon Master gets Deadly Critical... take Improved Critical around the same time... use Reliable Strike to help confirm your x4 HornBow critical. Possibly even size Large x4 HornBow critical.
How do you feel about multiclassing? I know I already brought up taking a level of Living Monolith, but that is only because you said damage is your primary focus. A wise dip would be one level of Medium... channel the Champion Spirit, wear Spirit Bonded Armor. You virtually don't even lose the BAB. Helps your saves and skills. I advise taking the Medium dip at an odd level, and take the Spirit Focus feat at the same time.
With the Champion Spirit, Spirit Focus, and Spirit Bonded armor you have a static +3/+3 to attack and damage. This stacks with your Weapon Training, which will most likely be boosted by Gloves of Dueling to somewhere around a +4/+4... now we are getting somewhere.
Fighter gets Greater Weapon Focus and, at 12th level, Greater Weapon Specialization for another static +2/+4... that's something like a +10/+12 static bonus factoring in another increase to Weapon Training from levels to reach Greater Weapon Specialization.
| MrCharisma |
I'm not an expert in archery or Fighters, but human fighter gets 12 feats.
Point blank shot
Precise shot
Deadly aim
Rapid shot
Manyshot
Weapon focus
Weapon specialization
Point blank master
Improved critical
Clustered shot
...
There are 2 feats left, maybe Iron Will and some other defensive/utility feat? Is there a feat to ignore/downgrade concealment?
You'll full-attack every round for 4 attacks (5 if hasted) and the first attack is Manyshot. It'll deal loads of damage, but ultimately that's all you'll do. It's a very non-dynamic style of play.
| ThecrimeForceDragon |
@ VoodistMonk. That dose look cool.But I'd like to keep human I have a character image or well had one and it was a human male
@ MrCharisma: your right about the
"It's a very non-dynamic style of play." When this character is was built it was for a one shot that was 98% combat ( Small Group vs a horde of mooks and a custom monster the GM whipped up
But truth be told maybe running the damage down a bit for some social ability would be nice not a lot I'm thinking Diplomacy.
| MrCharisma |
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Yeah people often talk about Fighters being only good at combat, but they have enough combat feats that they can use their non-combat feats to be good at non-combat scenarios.
So with just your 6 combat feats: Point blank shot, Precise shot, Deadly aim, Rapid shot, Manyshot, Clustered shot.
You now have 6 feats to spend on non-combat stuff. You could give yourself 12 INT annd take CUNNING, and even put your FCB toward skills (you're the archer so hopefully someone else will take most of the hits). As a Human that gives 5 skill points per level, which is enough to be good at whatever you want. You could even take the Focused Study alternate racial trait, which swaps your bonus feat at level 1 for three bonus "Skill Focus" feats at levels 1, 8 and (if you keep playing) 16. It won't make you a skill monkey, but you'll be more than capable in your chosen skills.
And you still have 4 feats left to spend (though I still recommend Iron Will).
| VoodistMonk |
Weapon Master Fighter
1. Point Blank Shot
1. Precise Shot
1. Rapid Shot
2. Weapon Focus
3.
4. Weapon Specialization
5.
6. Snap Shot
7. Manyshot
8. Greater Weapon Focus
9.
10. Clustered Shots
I know it doesn't matter starting at level 10, but this progression establishes you at level one with both Precise Shot and Rapid Shot. Level two eliminates the Rapid Shot penalty if the target is within range of Point Blank Shot. Snap Shot as early as possible allows you to shoot more, and run away less. Manyshot. Greater Weapon Focus eliminates the Rapid Shot penalty even outside of Point Blank Shot.
Greater Weapon Specialization at level 12, Improved Critical at 13... 11 could be Additional Traits, or Deific Obedience, or Improved Initiative.
You could use the 3/5/9 feats for Iron Will, Familiar Bond, and Improved Familiar...
That is just single class Fighter. I would honestly think about possibly starting with the dip in Medium, and taking Spirit Focus. You still get two feats at level 1 because Human. Pick up Spirit Bonded armor when you can, too. You could take the House of the Green Mother's Pupil trait instead of Iron Will, since Medium will boost your Will saves... that counts towards Familiar Bond, and you still have an Improved Familiar... even taking Spirit Focus.
| Wonderstell |
Is there a feat to ignore/downgrade concealment?
Improved Precise Shot at BAB +11, and the ever powerful Seeking +1 property. Seeking by itself allows you to ignore invisibility if you know an enemy's square. Definitely recommended.
====
But truth be told maybe running the damage down a bit for some social ability would be nice not a lot I'm thinking Diplomacy.
Let's go with MrCharisma's idea of only taking PBS, Precise shot, Deadly aim, Rapid shot, Manyshot, and Clustered shot.
Eldritch Guardian is a very solid archetype if you have the feats to spare, which you now do. Your Bravery class feature is added to all mind-affecting saves, which is the clear majority, so there's not a huge need for Iron Will. You also get a familiar. If you choose the Hedgehog familiar you get an additional +2 to Will saves, and what archetype you choose for it can provide a noticeable difference.
Then we replace your Bonus Feat with the (already mentioned) Focused Study ART for two bonus Skill Focus, take Orator, and maybe the social trait Weathered Emissary for Linguistics as a class skill. It's a similar investment to being just good with Diplomacy, but grants you that bonus for the social aspect of Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate.
Focused Study, Skilled
Character Traits:
Weathered Emissary, +1 Trait
1 PBS, Skill Focus, Familiar
2 Steel Will
3 Rapid Shot, Armor Training +1
4 Precise Shot
5 Deadly Aim, Weapon Training +1
6 Manyshot, Steel Will +2
7 Orator, Armor Training +2
8 Clustered Shots, Skill Focus
9 +1 Feat, Weapon Training +2, Warrior Spirit AWT
10 +1 Feat, Steel Will +3
Linguistics skill bonus:
13 (ranks + class) +6 (skill focus) +2 (Cracked Magenta Prism) +1 (Trait) +INT
= 22+INT
***
Which leaves you with two feats to spare. I'm thinking Thrill of the Hunt unless one of your party members will provide you with constant morale bonuses. As you have a familiar you can play hide-n-seek with it before the adventuring day begins and get a +2 morale bonus to attack, saves, and skill checks for 10 hours. So effectively Heroism.
And the other could be Advanced Weapon Training (the feat) for Knockout Training. With Gloves of Dueling you'd at this level add another +4 to dmg as long as you're using blunt arrows (and aren't fighting undead).
In the majority of situations those two feats will grant a similar benefit to Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, and Great Fortitude. It also requires maxing out Survival, so it's effectively 3 feats, but it's still great value.
Firebug
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With the Champion Spirit, Spirit Focus, and Spirit Bonded armor you have a static +3/+3 to attack and damage. This stacks with your Weapon Training, which will most likely be boosted by Gloves of Dueling to somewhere around a +4/+4... now we are getting somewhere.
+3/+5 actually. The Seance Bonus is another +2 damage. Medium dip is frankly amazing for low-mid level martials.
Eldritch Guardian is a very solid archetype if you have the feats to spare, which you now do. Your Bravery class feature is added to all mind-affecting saves, which is the clear majority, so there's not a huge need for Iron Will. You also get a familiar. If you choose the Hedgehog familiar you get an additional +2 to Will saves, and what archetype you choose for it can provide a noticeable difference.
Imps, Liminal Sprites, Lyrakien, and Brownies all have hands and some of them explicitly use weapons. Just saying... if you are sharing all of your combat feats with a familiar... why not also make it an archer?
You can take an improved familiar as an Eldritch Guardian due to this FAQ even though you don't have a caster level.
Mutation Warrior also stacks with that archetype, and gives you mutagen and a few discoveries at the cost of your armor training.
| VoodistMonk |
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Wonderstell wrote:some major powercreep for fighters is the Warrior Spirit Advanced Weapon Training.
Implying that a fighter can "power creep" in pathfinder.
Outside of pure damage, if you wanted something fun, the archer archetype for fighter lets you perform some combat maneuvers with a bow.
I have a Flickering Step/Dimensional Savant Titan Fighter build that might not quite qualify for "power creep" in the same sense as an Elemental Annihilator's Omnicide, but does alright teleport-pouncing with big-@$$ Earthbreaker. And outside of pure damage, Harley Quinn is an Incredible Healer with her Healing Hands. She is a doctor, after all. Well, therapist, but whatever. Has Psychic Sensitivity, because reasons... it makes sense to me for a psychiatrist, and it opens up Faith Healing. With the Precise Treatment trait, Heal is keyed off of Inteligence, so even as a Fighter she can manage a few skills.
A Gatecrasher Half-Orc Holomog Demolitionist Investigator that grabs three levels (5-7) of Archer Fighter can do some pretty silly things with Sunder and an Orc HornBow... ultimately working towards Iconclastic Strike. A level of Toxophilite Ranger doesn't hurt this, either. But that hardly qualifies as any sort of a Human Fighter build.
@Firebug, I like to start with the Medium dip, since they have better skills that you can continue to put ranks into as you continue your career in Weapon Master Fighter. Especially as a Human, since you can start with Spirit Focus as well as Combat Reflexes or Point Blank Shot. Your limited Knacks are more gamechanging at first level. And you can likely afford to slap Spirit Bonded on your armor long before you can afford the Gloves of Dueling to boost the Weapon Training you get from Weapon Master.
| VoodistMonk |
I believe Firebug mentioned Overwatch Vortex upthread... if this something you want to pursue, I highly recommend Toxophilite Ranger (and obviously a Shaman's Apprentice Half-Orc with Sacred Tattoos/Fate's Favored, and a HornBow)... but regardless of race, you are a real-life Robin Hood with Arrow-Splitter. Lol.
Pick up everything necessary to fully utilize Weapon Trick with your bow, as well as Overwatch Style/Tactician/Vortex and you will never run out of things you can do with your bow. Especially if you put the Driving enchantment on your bow.
In juxtapose to a Fighter focused on damage... a Toxophilite Ranger has Favored Enemy, spells like Gravity Bow and Instant Enemy, and better saves/skills.
| Wonderstell |
Wonderstell wrote:some major powercreep for fighters is the Warrior Spirit Advanced Weapon Training.Implying that a fighter can "power creep" in pathfinder.
y-yeah?
The term describes how stronger content gets introduced over time, leaving previous options behind. It's a relative term. In the case of the introduction of Advanced Weapon Training then every archetype that switches out Weapon Training is now worse than before relative to the base class. All archetypes that messes with Weapon Training are now relatively worse than before Advanced Weapon Training was released.
What did you think it meant?
| Derklord |
Wonderstell wrote:some major powercreep for fighters is the Warrior Spirit Advanced Weapon Training.Implying that a fighter can "power creep" in pathfinder.
Wonderstell didn't say that Warrior Spirit was power creep for the game, but for the Fighter. You're right that for the game as a whole, Warrior Spirit (or AWT+AAT in general) did not induce power creep. However, looking at just the Fighter class, what AWTs in general and Warrior Spirit in specific did matches perfectly* how Wikipedia describes the effect of power creep: "older content falls out of balance and becomes regressively outdated or relatively underpowered, effectively rendering it useless from a competitive or challenge-seeking viewpoint."
*) Although I'd argue that it's only true for single digit levels, because at higher levels, any archetype that loses Weapon Training, like Archer Fighter, was always substandard compared to vanilla Fighter due to the inability to benefit from Gloves of Dueling (which was from the same book that introduced archetypes).
rorek55
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@everyone
It was largely a joke, albeit one with a tinge of truth.
Warrior spirit is certainly not the strongest option of the AWT, and Wonder's statement implied it was warrior spirit working as the power creep, not AWT in general.
"And some major powercreep for fighters is the Warrior Spirit Advanced Weapon Training."
He stated a specific option. Is AWT strong? Yes, is it always better? hmm usually, save niche cases where you want to focus on something specific. Was it needed? I think so. Does it nullify archetypes that already swapped out weapon training? Not particularly. Since those were already sub-optimal from a damage stand point anyway. The case can be made for archetypes that swap "weapon training" for something similar to weapon training but isn't actually weapon training. Though as before they were still often sub-optimal at a point due to the mentioned gloves of dueling. And as stated many of the fighter archetypes were already sub-par, which brings into question whether or not it truly is power creep if the options it is "creeping" were already sub-optimal in most regards.
Anyway, that addressed-
If you are going for overwatch Vortex, the crossbowman archetype works great with that feat chain, and negates the need to invest much in strength. And before you say "I wanted a longbow" simply reflavor the crossbow to a longbow, or ask if you can use the crossbowman archetype with a longbow.
Also, if you are going AWT heavy, I suggest a 1 level dip in Brawler for Martial flexibility. This way you can take the greatest advantage of the AWT options in the item mastery options.
| MrCharisma |
Wonderstell wrote:some major powercreep for fighters is the Warrior Spirit Advanced Weapon Training.
Implying that a fighter can "power creep" in pathfinder.
...
@everyone
It was largely a joke, albeit one with a tinge of truth.
HAHAHAHAHaHaHaHahahahahahahahaha ... I get it 0_0
Fighters are Terrible! I HATE having Fighters in my party, they never contribute ANYTHING to the group. They're the WORST!
| WagnerSika |
Warrior spirit is certainly not the strongest option of the AWT
What would be the strongest options in your opinion? I need to "optimize" some enemy sword and board fighter NPCs and have been pondering what AWT options to give them. I have never actually played a pure fighter so I'm not sure about them.
| Lelomenia |
rorek55 wrote:Warrior spirit is certainly not the strongest option of the AWTWhat would be the strongest options in your opinion? I need to "optimize" some enemy sword and board fighter NPCs and have been pondering what AWT options to give them. I have never actually played a pure fighter so I'm not sure about them.
armed bravery is kind of a must-have.