Manipulate an Item
Source PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 187
Moving or manipulating an item is usually a move action. This includes retrieving or putting away a stored item, picking up an item, moving a heavy object, and opening a door. Examples of this kind of action, along with whether they incur an attack of opportunity, are given in Table 8–2.
-so it's *usually* a move action. Weapon cords exist; I can't really see why they wouldn't work on other items (they seem like a very silly idea to me. I've never read about their use historically, but everyone in Pathfinder seems to have one. But the idea of a horn on a shoulder strap--that makes perfect sense to me, and is essentially the exact same thing as what you're talking about.)
Then again, I don't see why drawing the horn as part of your move action or using Quick Draw isn't allowed either, but both of those are, according to the RAW, not viable.
ask them how their pants stay up since there isn't RAW about how belts work.
Something are just a given, if an item is connected to you by a strap or cord and you release that item, it is still connected by the strap and hangs there until you retrieve it again.
I completely understand what you're saying. Which is why I said:Yeah the move action isnt the question.
He is questioning the existence of a horn on a string/twine by raw in pathfinder or a rule about a carried item in this nature being manipulated. I completely understand to grab the horn is a move action...
Weapon cords exist; I can't really see why they wouldn't work on other items...
That's as close to RAW as I can see you getting.
Everything else I mentioned was for sake of completion. You say you want a horn on a string. You make some reference as to why. So I referred to the rules on manipulating items. Tell your friend that the word "usually" in that first line is pretty important.ask them how their pants stay up since there isn't RAW about how belts work.
Something are just a given, if an item is connected to you by a strap or cord and you release that item, it is still connected by the strap and hangs there until you retrieve it again.
Exactly. I've seen systems that differentiate between belt pouches, cloak pockets and backpacks and how much time and effort it takes to retrieve various items from these various places in various conditions. But I no more want to delve into that level of minutiae than I want to take responsibility for declaring when, where and how my character relieves themselves, how many times they chew each bite of food or when they exhale.
A Skald has an archetype called the Herald of the Horn, and you need to have the horn in one of your hands in order to be efficient.
What you could try is to... weaponize your horn. Back in D&D 3.5, there were bayonnets screwed to the necks of lutes and mandolins. So... could you turn your horn into a mace to whack people with?
Weapon cords exist; I can't really see why they wouldn't work on other items (they seem like a very silly idea to me. I've never read about their use historically, but everyone in Pathfinder seems to have one. But the idea of a horn on a shoulder strap--that makes perfect sense to me, and is essentially the exact same thing as what you're talking about.)
Then again, I don't see why drawing the horn as part of your move action or using Quick Draw isn't allowed either, but both of those are, according to the RAW, not viable.
Historical cavalry used weapon cords or something like them sometimes, it's easier to lose your sword in a cavalry charge I guess.
The limitations on PF quick draw stemmed from the author's distaste for some D&D tactics as far as I can tell. The flask rogue build and use & discard of partially charged (like buying with 1 charge remaining) wands.
Historical cavalry used weapon cords or something like them sometimes, it's easier to lose your sword in a cavalry charge I guess.
The limitations on PF quick draw stemmed from the author's distaste for some D&D tactics as far as I can tell...
That makes sense about the cavalry, I guess. Still just feels...weird. Heavy cavalry in combat, I mean. They're there to FIGHT, and that's it. So you can afford to be a little hyper-focused and sacrifice comfort/versatility/ease.
An adventurer, though? You've got to hike and climb and jump and crawl and hike and fight and hike. Something like a locked gauntlet or a weapon cord seems like it would be more trouble than it's worth.And as far as Quick Draw, I've heard the reasons. But...it just feels like such a very sweeping "fix" for a few niche cases. And it makes Quick Draw...ugh.
The issues with free hands and stuff can drive me absolutely crazy, sometimes. With all the tuned bowstrings and flute bayonets and axe mandolins, it's amazing that bards even bother with things so limiting as a horn.
It just ruins the aesthetic for me, I guess. Like the OP, I want Boromir, not...whatever the eff someone playing a longbow is doing. I'd be more than happy to make some concessions for a player who wanted to play a normal, not ridiculous instrument.
My character is a gestalt fighter bard with a punching dagger, and a shield.
I am planning when i get the gold to get the horn 3 reasons to live.
So 3 things:
The Three Reasons To Live is a specific item that gives bonuses if it is used to start a Bard's performance, so using Oratory or Sing don't really work. However it does say it only needs to "start" the performance, so you could start with a horn blast then go into a song .
2. What kind of shield are you using? My understanding was that you could hold an item in the hand that a light shield is strapped to, but I can't find that now, so check this one.
3. You're playing a Gestalt game, why limit something like a sword-and-board Bard (objectively not the best fighting style) when something this flavourful is a part of the AP? Even if it isn't legal I'd allow it. Otherwise why have this item in the game?
No rules were written to explain what happens when you do this. They probably shouldn't be necessary since everyone can understand what happens when you have something on a cord over your shoulder like that.
You could use the rules for a book lariat, or a weapon cord. There's also bandoleers and adventurer's sashes which give some more variation on how things are stored. The adventurer's sash states that you can tie things too it, so at the very least tying things to other things that you then wear is established.
The horn is a Shofar, which is larger and more awkward than your standard signal horn, so I could see a DM ruling that leaving it unsecured contributed a point to ACP or something.
I think your friend just likes arguing.
cast unseen servant, order him to take items from you when done and store on your person. done.
(also can reload xbows for you. my 1st level wizards use heavy x bow from the back row with this reloading tactic)
Starting the bardic performance is a std/move/swift action depending on level and maintaining it is a free action. How you describe it is fluff and versimiltude be damned.
The horn can hover in the air pressing itself against your lips whilst simultaneously letting you talk whilst TWF and blowing the horn.
PS: I hate bards
PS: I hate bards
*narrows eyes*
... How do you feel about Skalds?
PS: I hate bards*narrows eyes*
... How do you feel about Skalds?
That's when you burn yourself with water, so not nice :-)
Whilst I fully understand the role music etc plays in mass combat I don't feel it has a place in small squad based combat and then there's the mechanics, ie making it a free action, for game balance reasons that just adds to the versimiltude shattering nature of the bard and similar classes in pathfinder adventures.
That's when you burn yourself with water, so not nice :-)
Ha! Good one.
Whilst I fully understand the role music etc plays in mass combat I don't feel it has a place in small squad based combat and then there's the mechanics, ie making it a free action, for game balance reasons that just adds to the versimiltude shattering nature of the bard and similar classes in pathfinder adventures.
Ah, personal preference then. You are allowed to have those. Bards/Skalds tend to be my favorite class to play, though I'll play just about any 3/4 BAB and 6th level casting class, and enjoy it.