Is there a general rule on retrying skill checks?

[Wheldrake]

I know there have been previous threads on retrying lockpicking checks or recall knowledge checks.

But is there a general rule about retrying skill checks?

The question came up when somebody asked about doing multiple Diplomacy (Make an Impression) checks to improve NPC attitudes. My gut feeling is that you only get one go at this, but that begs the question about whether a second PC can try to improve that attitude further, etc, above and beyond the Aid action.

Also, since a time range is given in the skill description ("With at least 1 minute of conversation") one wonders whether spending 20 minutes or an hour talking up somebody might give the opportunity for further improvements to their attitude.

So am I missing something? Or is this issue never dealt with in the RAW?

[Aw3som3-117]

The short answer is no, there isn't a general rule on this. Certain abilities specifically mention a target being immune to an ability after one or more people attempt it against them, so if that's not there, then a GM could allow for more than 1 check. It really depends on what makes sense given the situation.

With the specific example I wouldn't allow multiple checks from the same person, but I'd probably allow multiple people to try and make an impression as long as they all had something specific AND unique from each other to say. If 3 people are saying the same thing, I don't think someone would be more convinced. Not that I have to particularly agree with what they're saying, but just that they're saying or doing something else that may or may not convince a target to be more friendly.

Though, for coercion, you probably don't even need to be particularly unique. Just multiple people piling on with threats would be enough.

Also, a nice way to curb this if you think players are overdoing it a bit is to have the NPC catch onto the players trying to sweet talk them as they go, not making their attitude change like it does on a crit fail, but just making the DC go up a little each time until someone either succeeds or crit fails. Perhaps it's the same base level / DC, but gets 1 higher difficulty modifier each time (easy to normal DC, normal to hard for that level, etc.). Though, if you do this, I'd warn the players ahead of time, because it can feel bad coming out of left field.

[Wheldrake]

Thanks for your thoughts.

My gut feeling on Diplomacy (Make an Impression) checks is pretty much in the same place as your suggestions. PCs wanting to add in further attempts need to come in with a new angle, something bigger and better that has a chance at better influencing the NPC.

But AFAICT, there are no official guidelines for such things. It's entirely ad-hoc DM adjuducation.

[thewastedwalrus]

I just run Make an Impression as written, keeping in mind that NPCs probably want to do something other than continue talking to this boring/offensive person (failure/critical failure) and also scaling the DC as appropriate.

I usually let each PC try at least twice with most folks, but it really depends on what the individual and context are.

[thenobledrake]

Official guidelines on when you can or can't continue an effort, or try a different way of reaching the same goal that happens to use the same skill, and where exactly the line between "try again" and "do something else that might have the same or similar result" typically cause more problems than they solve and end up falling to GM adjudication anyways.

So I appreciate Paizo saving a little time, effort, and space in the book to just skip the middle part.