I've always thought the implication was that since it's an illusion, it someone relies on people's suspension of disbelief, and you can't really disbelief someone is there if they are stabbing you or whatever.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Once upon a time there was a line of reasoning about violent motion being too much for the illusion to cope with. This translated into an early offshoot of D&D, Rolemaster as any movement which required a moving maneuver (a skill roll, roughly) having a chance to break invisibility. D&D since mostly lost the line of reasoning saying 'it just is' for invisibility breaking on an attack.
| 8 people marked this as a favorite. |
It's because true invisibility is too hard - so instead the spell called "invisibility" generates a Somebody Else's Problem field (“The Somebody Else's Problem field is much simpler and more effective. This is because it relies on people's natural disposition not to see anything they don't want to, weren't expecting, or can't explain.”) But of course once it is stabbing you (or your companion) it becomes Your Problem.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It's because true invisibility is too hard - so instead the spell called "invisibility" generates a Somebody Else's Problem field (“The Somebody Else's Problem field is much simpler and more effective. This is because it relies on people's natural disposition not to see anything they don't want to, weren't expecting, or can't explain.”) But of course once it is stabbing you (or your companion) it becomes Your Problem.
Bless you!
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
The real reason is game balance. Being able to attack while invisible is a lot stronger than a 2nd level spell should be. The standard invisibility spell is designed to allow you to sneak around and avoid danger. That is why it has a duration of 1 min. per level. Greater Invisibility is designed for combat and has a much shorter (1 round per level ) duration. Vanish has an even shorter duration and caps out at 5 rounds no matter how high the casters level is, but is only a 1st level spell.
You see... sneaking around under a black sheet only fools everyone around you into thinking you aren’t actually there until you do something foolish such as reaching your arm out from under the sheet to stab someone or burn a hole through it to launch a fireball, or for whatever reason toss the sheet behind you as you scream bloody murder and bite someone’s ear off... I mean, we all know low level wizardry is little more than smoke and mirrors... oh and carful going through that doorway I threw a stick of butter, I mean, I cast grease...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It's both game balance (as Mysterious Stranger says) and world-building. If all it took to murder someone with impunity was "access to a 2nd level arcane spell" the world would would look very different from the expectations of a classic fantasy setting.
I know the game balance reason for it. I'm just wondering what a plausible in-universe explanation would be.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I know the game balance reason for it. I'm just wondering what a plausible in-universe explanation would be.
There isn't a realistically plausible reason. It's a straight up game balance thing, and it's for the same reason a level 3 character can't give out Mass Invisibility or cast Wish.
Even with its limitations, Invisibility is still one of the best level 2 spells in the game.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Maybe the spell is just shy and doesn't stick around once it starts attracting attention.
The in game explanation could be that standard invisibility causes the character to partially withdraw from the world. People do not notice you because you exist in an altered state. To achieve this state you have to kind of detach yourself from the world. Any sudden and significant interaction (making an attack) causes you to lose that detachment and ends the spell. Other forms of invisibility use different effects and are more difficult (Higher Level)
The in game explanation could be that standard invisibility causes the character to partially withdraw from the world. People do not notice you because you exist in an altered state. To achieve this state you have to kind of detach yourself from the world. Any sudden and significant interaction (making an attack) causes you to lose that detachment and ends the spell. Other forms of invisibility use different effects and are more difficult (Higher Level)
If invisibility were a conjuration or transmutation spell, sure... but as an illusion that’s rather far fetched... the only time illusions interact with the actual state of anything is when it is a shadow spell... invisibility is a glamor, which simply makes it a visual effect and nothing more...
Perhaps invisibility creates illusory mirrors around you that can shift and bend with you so long as you don’t take any swift and deliberate actions such as attacking or casting an offensive spell... anything of that nature probably shatters the illusion by quite literally shattering the illusory mirrors that were hiding your presence.
|
Plausible in game reality reason: It's magic. Another reason: Some Gods don't like getting sucker punched and cause it to break for the weaker version of the spell so their followers don't get sucker punched continually without ever being able to retaliate.
Third "reason" is it is level 3 spell that grants someone an extra-ordinary ability (invisibility) in a universe full of light. In a way, it is a very tiny limited wish. And we all know wish stacking is bad. So the world doesn't let you keep the benefit of the wish if you do bad things like attack other people.
The real reason is still: because it says so in the spell description. Same reason you can zap someone for 5d6+10 electric damage with shocking grasp and not hurt anyone touching them, including yourself. Magic be like that.
I think the best way to look at it is that invisibility as we know it is actually lesser invisibility and greater invisibility is the true invisibility spell... in an effort to make the spell consume less energy from the caster additional conditions were placed on the effect in the casting, these conditions supplement the higher cost by the rules of magic and one such limit was the immediate and irrevocable dismissal of the effect should any hostile action be taken by the spell subject.
Another thing to think about is- consider the Ring of Gyges in Plato's Republic. The example of a magic ring that renders the user invisible was considered the greatest test of a 'just man' as per Glaucon.
"No man would keep his hands off what was not his own when he could safely take what he liked out of the market, or go into houses and lie with any one at his pleasure, or kill or release from prison whom he would, and in all respects be like a god among men.
It's probably likely that one guy in ancient Greece on earth is not the only person to consider how dangerous being able to act without consequences (by being invisible) is and will have designed the spell to have limitations on purpose because we don't want just anybody who can cast 3rd level spells to have to deal with this level of temptation or have society deal with the consequences of them falling to temptation. Arcane spells were generally designed/invented by individual mages, after all, harnessing mental discipline and various material goods in order to manipulate universal forces.
Then the greater version is just a hacked version that came around later.
When I stated you partially withdraw from the world it was more of a state of mind than a physical effect. You are still using an illusion to achieve the result of not being seen, but by mentally distancing yourself from the world it makes it easier to maintain the illusion. This would also explain why one action my break the spell, while a similar one does not.
Why does pulling a lever to open a door not break invisibility, but pulling a lever to drop the floor out from under someone does. The difference between the two is that in the first instance the caster is not interacting with the world as much. The only thing they are really interacting with is the lever and the door. In the second instance the caster is interacting with the creatures he is trying to drop.
It's a quantum mechanics thing.
An invisible creature is in a quantum superposition of there and not there, and is thus invisible. When he attacks someone, the creature being attacked acts as an Observer and collapses that quantum state, ending the invisibility.
Doing something that isn't an attack doesn't prompt anyone to take as much notice, so the superposition doesn't collapse.
Because Gary Gygax said so.
Look through this thread at all of the dozens of posts I have made. You can't find them because I was thinking REALLY HARD about being invisible when I made them.
This one CAN be seen because I was thinking REALLY HARD about spelling & typing instead.
That's the difference!
That or you kicked a puppy (an attack) between posts. I dunno marcryser, I can't respect a puppy-kicker.
The in game explanation could be that standard invisibility causes the character to partially withdraw from the world. People do not notice you because you exist in an altered state. To achieve this state you have to kind of detach yourself from the world. Any sudden and significant interaction (making an attack) causes you to lose that detachment and ends the spell. Other forms of invisibility use different effects and are more difficult (Higher Level)If invisibility were a conjuration or transmutation spell, sure... but as an illusion that’s rather far fetched... the only time illusions interact with the actual state of anything is when it is a shadow spell... invisibility is a glamor, which simply makes it a visual effect and nothing more...
Perhaps invisibility creates illusory mirrors around you that can shift and bend with you so long as you don’t take any swift and deliberate actions such as attacking or casting an offensive spell... anything of that nature probably shatters the illusion by quite literally shattering the illusory mirrors that were hiding your presence.
Shouldn't you get a massive luck penalty for breaking so many mirrors?
Nah, on Golarion, bad luck doesn't come from breaking mirrors, but from hurting butterflies.