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Personally, I couldn't care less since I wear a mask to protect me from everyone else, and if/when I get the Covid vaccine, it'll be for my benefit not anyone else. Meaning, Gary if you want to play with me without a mask, you are welcome to, though I may require you sit on the opposite side of the table :-)
Did you already do that to me once? :)
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I've been to nearly every GenCon since 1980 (for two years, Uncle Sam had other plans for me), but I'm going to give this one a miss. Data on vaccine efficacy is slim, I don't trust other people's health choices and frankly, I've been sick at GenCon before. It wasn't fun, but I didn't have to wonder if I was going to die.
Hopefully in 2022.
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With GenCon, SkalCon, and Origins all three weeks in a row I don't know what I will do! I went to all 3 last year and all 3 were great!
I think this year I will end up missing more cons than I would like, as even though I have had two doses of the vaccine, there is no guarantees I will develop many antibodies due to a kidney transplant this past summer. I am really excited to see everyone again in person, but until the new daily cases are down pretty low my transplant team doesn't want me to travel or go to large gatherings ...
Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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I personally have mixed feelings, while I would not attend a convention without masks (until we are in the high 90s as far as vaccinations are concerned) I would not spend much time there or GM... it's just a bit too rough on me... if I speak for more than 10 minutes with a mask, I am close to losing my voice.
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I personally have mixed feelings, while I would not attend a convention without masks (until we are in the high 90s as far as vaccinations are concerned) I would not spend much time there or GM... it's just a bit too rough on me... if I speak for more than 10 minutes with a mask, I am close to losing my voice.
I've been training for the better part of a year (due to work) on ways to speak and speak loudly and coherently with a mask on.
It doesn't, however, change the fact that a room of even a third the number of the people that were at Gen Con 2019 on a given day everyone's voices would be rapidly rising. Not as many people have had the dubious benefit of having that work experience to help them be quieter.
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I have been vaccinated, and for purely selfish reasons this might have been a great year to return to GenCon. (Predicted) smaller attendance could have allowed me to get a walkable-distance hotel room and see more of the convention without feeling crushed in a herd. The sheer numbers of attendees have meant I haven't gone in several years. Unfortunately the date change means it conflicts with my wife's annual girls' trip, so I'll be staying home with the little one.
Wearing a mask works in reducing the spread. We've got tons of data to show that is true. My personal risk is very low. And of course so is my risk of infecting other people. But I'm going to continue wearing masks as long as there are still people who want to get vaccinated but have not been able to get the shot(s) yet. Is it an imposition? A small one. Does it require adaptability? Yes. However it shows solidarity for those who haven't been vaccinated.
And as it has been from the very beginning wearing a mask is a very easy way to not only say, but also prove that I care about US. Yes, US. It doesn't matter whether we are talking about a neighborhood, a workplace, a city, or a nation. We are all better when we look out for each other. People can talk all they want about "personal liberty" or "government overreach" or "letting fear rule." When someone shows me something simple I can do to help others in my community, I'm going to do it.
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The argument essentially goes that if you can ask <me> to prove I've been vaccinated, then <I> can require you to prove you have a respiratory illness before providing "reasonable accommodations" for you to ignore the mask mandate in the grocery store.
You can, HIPPA does have exceptions (I work at a gym, had to look through this stuff when we reopened).
The big one currently being if said reasonable accommodations would put others at risk.
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On Know Direction, Linda and Alex said they would be running an 'Unnamed Convention in August' -- Does anyone know what dates that unnamed convention will be so I can take vacation days for it?
Hmm
They were very tight lipped about it, but I suspect we'll know sometime next week, perhaps after all the PaizoCon info is posted.
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For those who care, I am set to get 1st shot on March 28. So I will be safe, and those around me should be safe, by the time September comes around.
Unfortunately that isn't necessarily true. Getting a vaccination does NOT mean that you can't carry it. And none of the vaccines are 100% effective
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Its as true as any other vaccine and we have never required our children to wear masks when they attend school despite vaccinations for the various communicable diseases that tend to pass quickly in such an environment. So, once a person gets both doses of the Covid vaccine they are just as safe as they are as everyone else has been for decades. It is certainly true that vaccines do not provide 100% resistance vs the virus, however, once enough people are vaccinated, we will have effective prevention. Being alive means accepting a certain level of risk.
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The big one currently being if said reasonable accommodations would put others at risk.
And that's were the problem lies. For months people have been insisting that they get to shop without a mask if they claim to have a respiratory illness that prevents them from wearing a mask. That absolutely puts others at risk.
There is always going to be a tug of war between public health and personal liberty and where you fall on that topic is largely decided by your personal political bias.
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The city is keeping the mask mandate for now
Indianapolis will retain mask mandate despite governor ending its version, mayor says
Hogsett said it was too early for Marion County, the most populous county in the state, to abolish its mask mandate, citing the many out-of-state visitors coming over the next two weeks for March Madness basketball and the city's overall density.
Hogsett said that he was not concerned about the prospect of losing businesses to counties with more permissive COVID-19 strategies. This strategy takes a long-term approach, he said.
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There is always going to be a tug of war between public health and personal liberty and where you fall on that topic is largely decided by your personal political bias.
Where people fall should have nothing to do with political bias. It's the rule of proportionality - the scale of public health interventions should be proportional for the risk.
It's totally reasonable for a state to have no universal mandate (because people who live in rural areas can effectively socially distance), while a denser city has some sort of mandate, and an indoor convention have an even stricter mandate. It's also totally reasonable for the opposite to happen: for a state to have the strictest measures and select municipalities to have relaxed rules.
The most reasonable rules rely on being able to accurately quantify the risk, and basing decisions on data rather than principles.
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You don't have to convince me, I didn't make a judgment one way or the other. I made a statement of fact based on the observations of the past year. There are a lot of people who's political bias places more value in personal freedom than they do public health. There are also a lot of people who's political bias is vice versa. The inability of one side (or the other) to appreciate or understand the position of the other is really not relevant. For many (most?) people its a stretch to expect them to make measured, reasonable decisions based on data rather than principles or personal bias. One look at the past few years can corroborate that fact.
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Assuming there is no local mask mandate in place come September, and assuming the ICC doesn’t have one either, I wonder if Paizo/OPF might potentially have one. I’m sure they would have the authority to do so (they set the other rules for table play at their games.)
Interesting thought.
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If the state and city of Indianapolis, plus the convention center and Gen Con all agreed not to impose a mask requirement it would be very odd for an individual publisher to require it for games in just their area. I don’t know that it would be particularly effective under those conditions and it would certainly affect the draw of random players and walk-in traffic since they would be unlikely to know about or be prepared for it. Paizo would have to be prepared to provide masks for everyone entering the room and how they will react to anyone who claims a respiratory condition that prevents mask compliance. If they are that sensitive to the idea, would probably be better if they just decided not to host live gaming.
Contributor
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Honestly, this sounds like a complicated mess to arrange in person if you had to enforce a mask mandate not enforced by the city or convention. It is challenging enough to do with a government mask mandate behind you. Even with a state mask mandate, we sometimes have people who are non-compliant and belligerent. I've been shouted at and spat upon -- though I usually manage to calm situations, some folks are not able to be calm.
Like Twilight Knight, I am dubious about whether a private company could enforce a mask mandate not enforced elsewhere.
On the other hand, the vaccination rates are climbing. Let's see how the next two months pan out. It is hard to plan without real data closer to the event on how the vaccines have effected transmission rates.
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It's also totally reasonable for the opposite to happen: for a state to have the strictest measures and select municipalities to have relaxed rules.
Actually this is not true. Local municipalities are created by the state and can't override the state unless the state has given them the power to do that.
So it will be a case-by-case basis if a local community can override a state mandate, or lack of one.
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** spoiler omitted **
Like Twilight Knight, I am dubious about whether a private company could enforce a mask mandate not enforced elsewhere.
On the other hand, the vaccination rates are climbing. Let's see how the next two months pan out. It is hard to plan without real data closer to the event on how the vaccines have effected transmission rates.
My concern is actually at the table level. A GM insisting everyone wear a mask. Or a player insisting everyone were a mask. What happens when someone refuses?
It would be better, in my view, if there was "policy" either way made by Paizo.
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Like Twilight Knight, I am dubious about whether a private company could enforce a mask mandate not enforced elsewhere.
Yes; yes, they can. We are required to wear Paizo branded shirts while performing volunteer duties. It is no stretch of the imagination to require us to wear a mask as well. You are free to not volunteer if this offends you.
As part of the social contract, we as a society have decide that "No shirt, no shoes*, no service" is acceptable and part of the common good. Why is adding "no mask" to the prior statement suddenly a slight to all that is righteous and holy? If requiring the application of footwear and clothing is due to health reasons, then it follows that requiring a patron to wear a mask is just as acceptable. This violates no statute(s) of discrimination. You are free to go elsewhere.
Let's not forget dress codes for various establishments**. If a business can determine what brand of sneaker, color of clothing, or manner of dress is banned and or required for admittance, then adding a mask requirement is just as enforceable. Again, you are free to go elsewhere.
Now, it is possible the ICC can dictate to GenCon which will dictate to event organizers that a mask mandate is neither allowed nor enforceable. Usually, the people running a convention center are private enterprises which can set the rules and guidelines for any event within their premises. These can differ from state, county, or municipal statutes. These can also be written into the contract between event and location. Anti-discriminatory policies are a good example of the disconnect between state law and event rules. If the ICC has no stance on the matter, GenCon is free to dictate their own policy, such as that one must wear a mask while in common areas. Want in to the dealer hall? Put on a mask. This would be part of the terms of service fine print that comes with purchasing a badge. If there is a mask mandate, I would expect it to be something similar to this with event organizers free to determine their own policy. But what do I know?
"Will the gentleman be requiring the use of the house jacket?"
"No thanks, I'm good."
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It's also totally reasonable for the opposite to happen: for a state to have the strictest measures and select municipalities to have relaxed rules.Actually this is not true. Local municipalities are created by the state and can't override the state unless the state has given them the power to do that.
So it will be a case-by-case basis if a local community can override a state mandate, or lack of one.
If a state has no mask mandate, then a county and/or municipality may elect to institute one. If a State has a mask mandate, then a county and/or municipality must follow the state.
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We are required to wear Paizo branded shirts while performing volunteer duties.
Very true, but the volunteers are less than 15% of the people in the room. Paizo has much less control over random players and/or people just passing through the room. Hell, they cannot prevent former/retired Venture-Officers from wearing their official VO shirts even if said person was fired from their position.
Could they mandate masks despite the state, city, ICC, and GC not doing likewise? Perhaps, if the ICC/CG approved it, but I dunno if that would be a wise move given the investment in both tangible cost of providing masks for every person who passes through the door and the intangible cost of having to maintain door security and the hit they'll take in "good will" for the average GC attendee who is likely to just keep on walking if their is a gate "fee" they have to "pay" to come inside.
And if they require it in the Sagamore, how do they enforce that in the booth? That is an even bigger challenge. And if they cannot enforce it in the vendor hall, its a bit disingenuous to insist on it in the Sag. I'm not saying its not possible, but its a massive investment for a situation that would run counter to the supposedly medically informed leaders of the state, city, ICC, and convention.
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If a State has a mask mandate, then a county and/or municipality must follow the state.
Local municipalities might not be able to create official legislation that would violate a state mandate, but they can certainly choose not to enforce it which has seen plenty of examples over the past year.
EDIT--corrected|
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As part of the social contract...
The point is you are making a reasoned, informed position and assume that others will do the same. As the past year has taught us, many people on both sides of the liberal/conservative matrix do not employ logic and reason to their decisions.
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Mark,
Would you volunteer to muster at GenCon if that were implemented?
I would, but you also know that.
Alas, Gen Con is a no-go for me this year. My once-a-decade work project that normally occurs in March-April will be sometime in September/October so I can’t attend Gen Con as a result.
But if masks were required, I’d still be willing to volunteer in some capacity.
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Local municipalities are created by the state and can't override the state unless the state has given them the power to do that.Local municipalities might not be able to create official legislation that would violate a state mandate, but they can certainly choose not to enforce it which has seen plenty of examples over the past year.
I did not write the quoted portion.
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We are required to wear Paizo branded shirts while performing volunteer duties.Very true, but the volunteers are less than 15% of the people in the room. Paizo has much less control over random players and/or people just passing through the room. Hell, they cannot prevent former/retired Venture-Officers from wearing their official VO shirts even if said person was fired from their position.
Could they mandate masks despite the state, city, ICC, and GC not doing likewise? Perhaps, if the ICC/CG approved it, but I dunno if that would be a wise move given the investment in both tangible cost of providing masks for every person who passes through the door and the intangible cost of having to maintain door security and the hit they'll take in "good will" for the average GC attendee who is likely to just keep on walking if their is a gate "fee" they have to "pay" to come inside.
And if they require it in the Sagamore, how do they enforce that in the booth? That is an even bigger challenge. And if they cannot enforce it in the vendor hall, its a bit disingenuous to insist on it in the Sag. I'm not saying its not possible, but its a massive investment for a situation that would run counter to the supposedly medically informed leaders of the state, city, ICC, and convention.
I'm not arguing if they "should", I'm arguing if they "can".
There is a very big difference.
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Limited edition Gen Con exclusive Goblin masks that provided Fort save rerolls if properly worn would take care of most of the problem. That said I work in construction and have encountered mask resistance from educated rational dialogue to alpha posturing backed up with "facts" seemingly derived from beer commercials that have devolved into shoving matches and masks being destroyed. That would be a tough spot to put volunteers in.
Maybe just call this year The Season of the Plague and have characters die if players won't larp wearing a mask.
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Local municipalities are created by the state and can't override the state unless the state has given them the power to do that.Local municipalities might not be able to create official legislation that would violate a state mandate, but they can certainly choose not to enforce it which has seen plenty of examples over the past year.
I don't think I explained things very well nor as clear as I would like. I apologize.
Standard supremacy clause(s) in government work such that state overrides county and municipality. Where there is no state statute, then local governments are capable of creating law to fill the gap.
For example, New Leg State implemented a mask mandate via executive order. The mask mandate expires when the executive order ends, and the state legislature is quiet regarding continuance; ie, there is no legislation stating wearing a mask is required. Lamb City is thus capable of passing an ordinance re-imposing a mask mandate*. This is acceptable as the state has no compelling interest via lack of existing legislation.
If the New Leg State state legislature passed a law stating the passing of mask mandates at the county and municipal level is forbidden, then Lamb City may not pass ordinances imposing a mask mandate. The city or county may sue the state over said law, I think. This is where variances for states enter regarding a state's ability to be sued by counties and or municipalities.
(See previous post's spoiler above for my views on local control regarding ideology)
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they "can"That assumes that the ICC or GC would approve it. Assuming that both of those entities plus the state and city chose not to enforce it, Paizo may not have the authority to place such a requirement on their participants.
There would be language in the contract spelling out what organizers can and can not do. In the absence of such language, Paizo can dictate whatever they want.
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Limited edition Gen Con exclusive Goblin masks that provided Fort save rerolls if properly worn would take care of most of the problem. That said I work in construction and have encountered mask resistance from educated rational dialogue to alpha posturing backed up with "facts" seemingly derived from beer commercials that have devolved into shoving matches and masks being destroyed. That would be a tough spot to put volunteers in.
Maybe just call this year The Season of the Plague and have characters die if players won't larp wearing a mask.
If Alvarez doesn't have dollar sign eyes right now....