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My 5th level PC was recently afflicted with 2 permanent negative levels that I was unable to remove on my last Chronicle, and I'm beginning to question what that means in Society.
Unless noted otherwise, all conditions gained during an adventure, including death, must be resolved before the end of the session... However, a few conditions need not be resolved by the end of play, including permanent negative levels
For each negative level you have, you take a cumulative –1 penalty to your ability checks, your AC, attack rolls (including combat maneuvers), saving throws, and skill checks. In addition, you reduce your current and total Hit Points and Stamina Points by 5 for each negative level you have. You are also treated as 1 level lower for the purpose of level-dependent variables (such as spellcasting) for each negative level you have.
The Guide doesn't specify any exceptions to this. Neither does the FAQ. Do my negative levels:
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Interesting. I was going to say that permanent negative levels needed to be cleared before the end of the adventure but they don't in Starfinder.
A Restoration will restore a permanent negative levels. Is there a reason why you didn't purchase that spell service? Using the Basic Purchasing Plan, it only take 2 Fame for a Restoration spell. At 5th level, you should have that 4 Fame.
Negative levels don't impact the level the character. It has a negative impact to what the character can do.
Just clear the Negative level. I don't see a reason to carry it forward.
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A Restoration will restore a permanent negative levels. Is there a reason why you didn't purchase that spell service?
That would be the "unable to remove on my last Chronicle" part. A restoration is 3000cr (or 2 Fame, as you mentioned). My PC has 2552cr and 0 Fame.
Ideally I would love to remove them, but I am questioning which scenarios I can now partake in, or which Rewards sub-tier I am eligible for.
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Not trying to offend here, just trying to understand. The party could have helped with getting the negative levels removed. And I assume you got some fame for completing the adventure (might be a bad assumption). I am just surprised that a 5th level character has spent all their fame.
Either way, I don't think it will impact what scenarios you can play. Your character is still 5th level, just not feeling up-to-par for a little bit.
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Not trying to offend here, just trying to understand. The party could have helped with getting the negative levels removed. And I assume you got some fame for completing the adventure (might be a bad assumption). I am just surprised that a 5th level character has spent all their fame.
The details of how my PC got to that point are irrelevant, but if it must be known, the party TPK'd. All of my Fame was spent on a raise dead, and everyone else was obviously in a similar boat.
Either way, I don't think it will impact what scenarios you can play. Your character is still 5th level
That's the crux of my question.
My PC is "treated as 1 level lower for the purpose of level-dependent variables". As I understand it, Society-specific level-dependent variables include determining APL, sub-tier, DCs such as Possessed Augmentation, and skill checks such as with Hirelings.
Like I said in my initial post, the Guide doesn't call out any of those as exceptions.
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Nor does the guide say that "Society Specific" considerations are a "level-dependent variable" when calculating factors outside the adventure.
I see the mechanics of determining what adventure a character can play or what rewards they would earn does not take into account any conditions the player may bring with them.
Also I have always read the "treated as 1 level lower for the purpose of level-dependent variables" was for in-game mechanics.
I think you would be safe to play in whatever adventure your character would normally be able to play in.
Sorry about the TPK. Those are uncommon in Starfinder.
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No to everything on the list. The core rules weren't written with society in mind. When it says level dependent variables it means the ones in the starfinder rules. Even there you are TREATED as having a lower level for casting, ability durations, etc. Your actual level hasn't gone anywhere, and actual level is what the society rules care about.
Negative levels or not, You would not want a 10th level character who had already purchased 10th level gear showing up in a level 4 scenario after playing wrestlemania with the vampires. Their AC and damage would be scenario breaking, regardless of the negative levels attempt to emulate a lower level.
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If the Hireling Boon is affected, wouldn't Possessed Augmentation be as well?
They're both dependent on my level.
It's one rule set with the vague as ever "Treated as" without actually being the thing.. thing, being imported into whats functionally a different ruleset. Clarity and consistency with every corner case is ... unlikely. As with any corner case pick the worst option for you and 1) no one can fault you for it and 2) you're probably right.
Just hope you're adventuring with a mystic next time, cuts down on the service fee...
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If the Hireling Boon is affected, wouldn't Possessed Augmentation be as well?
They're both dependent on my level.
Because the game differentiates between "your character level" and penalties you are taking from negative levels. Here is some of the text of the section on negative levels and a thought experiment.
If your negative levels equal your total character level (or CR, for monsters), you die.
It's pretty clear from this text that your character level is not affected by a negative level.
Obviously this isn't true. Therefore our assumption is false and we can say that character level is unaffected by negative levels.
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I disagree with your thought experiment example, because "level-dependent variables" must mean something.
I think a more accurate comparison would be:
An enemy wants to Trick Attack a PC with negative levels (let's use the same 5/3 for consistency). The DC of the Trick Attack is a variable dependent on the level (or CR) of the target. The DC should be 23, because the two negative levels are subtracted from the 5 character levels for all "level dependent variables".
Turning the view around. If I inflicted negative levels on an enemy, I would sure hope my Operative ally could benefit from the debuff.
The Possessed Augmentation variable is "level+2". Hireling Boons use "level+X".
I can see the difference in, for lack of a better term, "out-of-character calculations", like determining APL, but shouldn't all of the "in-character calculations" be treated the same?
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I can see the difference in, for lack of a better term, "out-of-character calculations", like determining APL, but shouldn't all of the "in-character calculations" be treated the same?
Probably not. You don't actually have a negative level
You are also treated as 1 level lower for the purpose of level-dependent variables
There are probably some things looking at your level and some making level dependent variables based on your level, only the later would be effected. I don't think there's an objective way to split the two. Close terms like that are one reason I'm more than skeptical of an objective raw.
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Spell durations are actually the only example we're given for sure. I hadn't thought of Weapon Specialization. I agree that should be affected, too.
But I guess now we're drifting beyond the "Society-specific" question, since everyone seems to be on board with APL and tiering being unaffected.
Thanks, everyone.