Can Horse(Divine Bond)use Crane Style ?


Rules Questions

The Concordance

One of my PAL choose a horse to be her Divine Bond, and the horse learn Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike and Crane Style. I'm not sure whether it's legal, RAW.

Liberty's Edge

If you believe a horse can perform martial arts its perfectly RAW. It is likewise RAW to allow him to continue performing said martial arts while dead.

Dark Archive

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yup. 100% legal by raw

Bonded mount:
This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using the paladin's level as her effective druid level. Bonded mounts have an Intelligence of at least 6.

Animal Companion:
Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can select any feat they are physically capable of using.

In Conclusion:
Your horse is free to reenact the end scene of the original Karate Kid to your hearts content (even though that was an illegal kick by Danny LaRusso)


It's only Crane Wing that requires a hand free to gain its benefit. Style is fine.


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AwesomenessDog wrote:
It's only Crane Wing that requires a hand free to gain its benefit. Style is fine.

How many hands do you need?

The average Clydesdale is 17-19 hands ;)


Does that stack then?


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AwesomenessDog wrote:
It's only Crane Wing that requires a hand free to gain its benefit. Style is fine.

Note that the horse could still learn Crane Wing, as it would meet the pre-requisites, only it couldn't use it^^


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Name Violation wrote:

yup. 100% legal by raw

Bonded mount:
This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using the paladin's level as her effective druid level. Bonded mounts have an Intelligence of at least 6.

Animal Companion:
Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can select any feat they are physically capable of using.

In Conclusion:
Your horse is free to reenact the end scene of the original Karate Kid to your hearts content (even though that was an illegal kick by Danny LaRusso)

Elizabeth Shue read the rules as they headed in. Kicks to the head were legal in that tourney. Trust Cobra Kai not to be able to read.

Dark Archive

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Cavall wrote:
Name Violation wrote:

yup. 100% legal by raw

Bonded mount:
This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using the paladin's level as her effective druid level. Bonded mounts have an Intelligence of at least 6.

Animal Companion:
Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can select any feat they are physically capable of using.

In Conclusion:
Your horse is free to reenact the end scene of the original Karate Kid to your hearts content (even though that was an illegal kick by Danny LaRusso)

Elizabeth Shue read the rules as they headed in. Kicks to the head were legal in that tourney. Trust Cobra Kai not to be able to read.

The referee in the movie lists strikes to the face as not permissible; while this doesn't mean that Daniel should have been disqualified, it does mean that he should not have been awarded a point for the strike (which he was).


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Name Violation wrote:
...Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can select any feat[/b] they are physically capable of using...

"Capable of using" seems like a big ol' grey area, though. No?

Dark Archive

Quixote wrote:
Name Violation wrote:
...Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can select any feat[/b] they are physically capable of using...
"Capable of using" seems like a big ol' grey area, though. No?

who determines capable? me? you? My God? Your God? Random kid in the back of the room?the task doesnt require thumbs or grasping an object, a horse is capable of doing it, especially with an above average int.

show me an in game ruling of being capable and martial arts.

Maybe i think a duck isnt capable of using toughness, i dont believe in tough ducks.

saying a duck can have toughness sounds ridiculous, a duck isnt physically tough unless you over cook it.

but thats not anywhere in the rules, thats pure conjection and hyperbole.

*Mechanically* nothing prevents the horse from being a Kunk fu panda character


Don't you dare, ducks are awesome! Male ducks are drakes, tell me there is no toughness there!

Anything you can do, a duck can do better!


Tough ducks are fine. Toughness is listed as an animal feat so any animal can take it. Now a Gun Twirling pony on the other hand is a no go.

Liberty's Edge

Name Violation wrote:
Quixote wrote:
Name Violation wrote:
...Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can select any feat[/b] they are physically capable of using...
"Capable of using" seems like a big ol' grey area, though. No?

who determines capable? me? you? My God? Your God? Random kid in the back of the room?the task doesnt require thumbs or grasping an object, a horse is capable of doing it, especially with an above average int.

show me an in game ruling of being capable and martial arts.

Maybe i think a duck isnt capable of using toughness, i dont believe in tough ducks.

saying a duck can have toughness sounds ridiculous, a duck isnt physically tough unless you over cook it.

but thats not anywhere in the rules, thats pure conjection and hyperbole.

*Mechanically* nothing prevents the horse from being a Kunk fu panda character

It's no where in the rules except in the portion where it says it. And yes, it's a DMs call if a horse is capable. It's ok for RAW to direct the call to DMs.


It is capable of using Crane Wing if it is just as a prerequisite for Crane Riposte to lower the penalty for fighting Defensively to just -1.


Name Violation wrote:
...who determines capable?

...the GM. Think that's pretty clear.

In 3rd, there were a few places where they basically said "oh, by the way. Use your common sense." No matter your damage output, arrows can't knock down doors and clubs can't break rope. Elephants have high strength, horses and dolphins have decent Dex, but it doesn't mean they're good at jumping, walking a tightrope or climbing a ladder.

Granted, I don't think a horse with Crane Style would be broken or anything. But if I had a player legitimately trying to boost their mount's defenses, I'd help them find a less ridiculous option. If they wanted a karate-horse, well...I guess in the right setting?


I mean, mechanically all Crane style does is make you better at fighting defensively.

You could make a new feat called "Defensive Fighter" and copy/paste everything from Crane Wing and now you don't have a silly karate hirse but it's exactly the same.

(Or you could skip that step and let them take Crane Wing since I can't think of a good reason why not to.)

Dark Archive

MrCharisma wrote:

I mean, mechanically all Crane style does is make you better at fighting defensively.

You could make a new feat called "Defensive Fighter" and copy/paste everything from Crane Wing and now you don't have a silly karate hirse but it's exactly the same.

(Or you could skip that step and let them take Crane Wing since I can't think of a good reason why not to.)

Exactly.

Maybe you call it crane style, but the horse calls it defensive maneuver alpha.

You don't get to judge the horse


I assure you. I can judge that horse.


Name Violation wrote:
MrCharisma wrote:

I mean, mechanically all Crane style does is make you better at fighting defensively.

You could make a new feat called "Defensive Fighter" and copy/paste everything from Crane Wing and now you don't have a silly karate hirse but it's exactly the same.

(Or you could skip that step and let them take Crane Wing since I can't think of a good reason why not to.)

Exactly.

Maybe you call it crane style, but the horse calls it defensive maneuver alpha.

Exactly my point. If you want the benefits of Crane Style, cool. Let's work with that. Defensive Maneuver Alpha.

If you want your horse wearing a headband and a black belt and shouting "hiya!" then like I said: in the right setting, I guess.


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Mare-tial arts^^


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Well we all know cows can do martial arts. ;)


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Lemartes wrote:
Well we all know cows can do martial arts. ;)

Nah cows use guns.


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And chickens in choppers!


Julien Dien wrote:

One of my PAL choose a horse to be her Divine Bond, and the horse learn Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike and Crane Style. I'm not sure whether it's legal, RAW.

If you REALLY want to get RAW, then technically no.

One of the pre-requisites for it is Improved Unarmed Strike.

In that feat:

Quote:
Normal: Without this feat, you are considered unarmed when attacking with an unarmed strike, and you can deal only nonlethal damage with such an attack.

As the Int of 3 means "any they can reasonably qualify for", is it reasonable for a horse to qualify for Improved Unarmed Strike?

Also, Crane Style is a real martial art that involves precise movements with the human body. I don't see how a horse can replicate those movements.

Dark Archive

Skrayper wrote:


If you REALLY want to get RAW, then technically no.

One of the pre-requisites for it is Improved Unarmed Strike.

In that feat:

Quote:
Normal: Without this feat, you are considered unarmed when attacking with an unarmed strike, and you can deal only nonlethal damage with such an attack.

What part of that means anything to a horse?

What are you even trying to say there?


Name Violation wrote:

What part of that means anything to a horse?

What are you even trying to say there?

I think Skrayper believes you need arms to make an unarmed strike, which is a common misunderstanding. I don't know what the quoted text is supposed to prove, though.


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Well, they are un-armed strikes, lacking arms certainly isn't a problem^^


I think any GM is well within his rights to deny a non-humanoid style feats. Especially considering the description of crane style.

Ultimate Combat wrote:


Crane style focuses on defense and agile counterattacks. Practitioners are known for graceful, one-legged stances and folding arm techniques that mimic a crane's enormous wings.

I can't really imagine a horse taking a one-legged stance or mimicking a crane's enormous wings...or performing the circular movements associated with the RL style.

This goes along with the objections of a horse wielding a sword in its mouth. Except that is actually explicitly not allowed in the rules.

I could buy primates or actual birds performing Crane Style, but a horse? Seems silly. Maybe in a silly campaign it would be fine.


I can imagine a horse being trained to do a one leg stand. Makes as much sense as a human impersonating a bird and it giving them some sort of fighting advantage.


All I’m saying is that you gotta get into Horse Stance in order to even learn other stances. It’s the most basic move in multiple martial arts! XD

Dark Archive

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Also, a paladin mount is a divine being sent by your god that is magically summoned to your side.
Maybe it can do more stuff than a random mare from the pasture.


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AwesomenessDog wrote:
I can imagine a horse being trained to do a one leg stand.

That horse was standing on three legs! I demand a refund!


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Matthew Downie wrote:
AwesomenessDog wrote:
I can imagine a horse being trained to do a one leg stand.
That horse was standing on three legs! I demand a refund!

Why? Crane Style is just a dude lifting one leg off the ground. The horse lifted a leg off the ground.


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I consider a "graceful, one-legged stance" to mean balancing on one leg, not lifting one leg and then putting other body parts on the ground so you can balance. If the horse doesn't lift both forelegs, how can it imitate the wings of a crane with them?


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Matthew Downie wrote:
I consider a "graceful, one-legged stance" to mean balancing on one leg, not lifting one leg and then putting other body parts on the ground so you can balance. If the horse doesn't lift both forelegs, how can it imitate the wings of a crane with them?

It uses its ears instead. How is this not obvious?


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Thank you! Finally, an interpretation that makes sense!

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