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I love this book so much. It has so many iconic monsters I was missing. Of course ironically it comes out AFTER I finish converting one of my homebrew adventures that could have used those monsters. :P
It's also really cool to see how well the monster creation rules work. I did a homebrew conversion of the cave fisher and the result looks almost exactly like the official version in the Bestiary.
On another note, is it just me or is it really obvious that Paizo was thinking about Kingmaker while working on this book? :P Without spoiling who or what, there is definitely a strong representation of monsters that feature prominently in that adventure.
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I love this book so much. It has so many iconic monsters I was missing. Of course ironically it comes out AFTER I finish converting one of my homebrew adventures that could have used those monsters. :P
It's also really cool to see how well the monster creation rules work. I did a homebrew conversion of the cave fisher and the result looks almost exactly like the official version in the Bestiary.
On another note, is it just me or is it really obvious that Paizo was thinking about Kingmaker while working on this book? :P Without spoiling who or what, there is definitely a strong representation of monsters that feature prominently in that adventure.
I've already used a few of the B2 monsters in play last week, and I have to say I'm also a fan of the final product. This was also the first book as a subscriber so extra joy out of having pdfs to play with before the physical text arrives. What had I been missing?
I'm really hoping that this set gets the Battle Card treatment that B1 got
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Yeah, this was my first subscription order too. I figured there might be delays on deliveries, but didn't expect to get the PDFs this early. Loving it so far, though I still can't wait for my physical copy for easier browsing.
Creative Director
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On another note, is it just me or is it really obvious that Paizo was thinking about Kingmaker while working on this book? :P Without spoiling who or what, there is definitely a strong representation of monsters that feature prominently in that adventure.
This was absolutely on our mind. In hindsight, we probably put TOO much of a Kingmaker vibe in there, to be honest, but it's not like those Kingmaker monsters are no fun, so it's still a win.
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Every time I look at a monster in this book I immediately think of a quest or combat I could use it in, and that is a mark of a fantastic bestiary.
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This was absolutely on our mind. In hindsight, we probably put TOO much of a Kingmaker vibe in there, to be honest, but it's not like those Kingmaker monsters are no fun, so it's still a win.
The group I'm playing in converted our PF1 Kingmaker campaign into a PF2 one back in August, so these creatures are welcome.
Meanwhile I'm running a PF2 version of Rise of the Runelords, so I was grateful to see some of the monsters from that adventure in the Bestiary 2 as well.
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I know the ThreadWeDoNotMention is gone, but got any of them yummy review updates mr bag?
I am super happy as well. It arrived Yesterday and its what I peruse while at lunch.
Great job Paizo!
Question > When will the 'books' for Kingmaker be ready? I know you have pledges to fulfill but I missed that boat and would like to get the Adventure Core book and the companion guide.
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Creative Director
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I am super happy as well. It arrived Yesterday and its what I peruse while at lunch.
Great job Paizo!
Question > When will the 'books' for Kingmaker be ready? I know you have pledges to fulfill but I missed that boat and would like to get the Adventure Core book and the companion guide.
We're still deep in development for the Kingmaker update, so not soon. We'll be letting folks know more details once we know more, but in the meantime make sure to swing by the panel about Kingmaker at noon (PDT) at Paizocon Online for much more information!
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Ah I am so excited.
On a related note, I'm hoping that one of my favorite podcasts, "Monster in my Podcast", might pick up PF2 bestiary at some point. I think that they would really appreciate it as monster enthusiasts, considering that they even make normal animals pretty unique most of the time.
I'm really hoping that this set gets the Battle Card treatment that B1 got
Already announced for September!
The bestiary is great, i did find some oddities however.
So far ive noticed that the Tatzlwyrm has no grab ability when it should be the first part of its smelly breath wombo combo.
The Froghemoth has an ability called aquatic ambush that doesn't do anything.
The striding fire has an ability called burning rush that feels it should do damage as it mentions a basic reflex save.
The bestiary is great, i did find some oddities however.
So far ive noticed that the Tatzlwyrm has no grab ability when it should be the first part of its smelly breath wombo combo.
The Froghemoth has an ability called aquatic ambush that doesn't do anything.
The striding fire has an ability called burning rush that feels it should do damage as it mentions a basic reflex save.
Tatzlwyrms don't have anything beyond the usual grapple ability pretty much everyone has (https://2e.aonprd.com/Actions.aspx?ID=35), from what I can tell. They don't get the free Grab or Improved Grab on hit, so their grapples are subject to MAP and take an action. Seems like fair balancing on a level 2 creature.
Regarding the Froghemoth, from the ability glossary:
Aquatic Ambush [one-action] Requirements The monster is hiding in
water and a creature that hasn’t detected it is within the
listed number of feet; Effect The monster moves up to
its swim Speed + 10 feet toward the triggering creature,
traveling on water and on land. Once the creature is in
reach, the monster makes a Strike against it. The creature is
flat-footed against this Strike.
But agreed on the Striding Fire. That's a seriously bad action waste if it only has a mild effect on a critical failure and otherwise is just "normal walking." For a level 6 creature, some damage included in that makes sense.
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There are actually some things I want to nitpick, but I think I'll wait for the release before reviewing the book.
But yeah, I noticed lot of tome of horror monsters that appeared in kingmaker and ONLY kingmaker :D I guess since there are no 3rd party bestiaries that Pathfinder 2e can use that lot of future aps will rely more on bestiaries and such when they want to save space for more content(probably also reason why all bestiary entries in ap are also ap relevant nowadays). But yeah it is great idea to put those kingmaker creatures into bestiary 2, it means bog striders will get more fame ;D
But yeah, my nitpicks are of this type of nature: Remorhaz in bestiary 1 mentions that ancient ones of them turn into frost worm while frost worm in bestiary 2 mentions their origins are unknown. So umm.. Does that mean remorhaz info on them being in stage of life of frost worm is incorrect?
Animate dream is incorporeal but NOT a spirit, so that makes me confused about what non undead spirits are like in 2e. (btw I do like of change from animate dream being etherreal creature to them being "dream" creature(aka from dimension of dreams :D))
Then there is that chupacabra are common, hodag is uncommon and sea orm is rare. Umm, I'm now confused if that means that chupacabra aren't anymore cryptids in setting since apparently they are more common than hodag which are still considered tall tales.
But yeah, book is super duper awesome, but there are few things that make me wonder if they are errors or on purpose since its hard to tell what is "writers for each monster are different so they think differently" and what are intentional changes
Reason why those nitpicks makes me confused is that some entries really make it obvious that writers knew how changes in this setting work, for example: Nereids aren't type of nymph because nymphs have a specific location they protect(whether its tree or pond) and this is explicitly pointed out despite them being similar creatures. Thats attention to detail that could have been easily omitted or forgotten(plus it means lampads are probably nymphs now :D) Same way, kayal aren't planar scions because they are their own ancestry descended from humans and not just "shadow planar scions". So I really can't tell what is accidental and what is intentional decision since book shows great deal of love and attention has been spent on it.
I also love the gag of hippocampus, hippogriff and hippopotamus being in same book :D
I also ALSO love that each time book expands on category of creatures from last bestiary, instead of it just, for example, listing new linnorms, it takes space to tell about linnorms as if this was first time ever creatures appeared, but it doesn't repeat information from last book. So everytime a category makes return, it expands bit the general information of whole category :D
The bestiary is great, i did find some oddities however.
So far ive noticed that the Tatzlwyrm has no grab ability when it should be the first part of its smelly breath wombo combo.
The Froghemoth has an ability called aquatic ambush that doesn't do anything.
The striding fire has an ability called burning rush that feels it should do damage as it mentions a basic reflex save.
Tatzlwyrms don't have anything beyond the usual grapple ability pretty much everyone has (https://2e.aonprd.com/Actions.aspx?ID=35), from what I can tell. They don't get the free Grab or Improved Grab on hit, so their grapples are subject to MAP and take an action. Seems like fair balancing on a level 2 creature.
Regarding the Froghemoth, from the ability glossary:
Aquatic Ambush [one-action] Requirements The monster is hiding in
water and a creature that hasn’t detected it is within the
listed number of feet; Effect The monster moves up to
its swim Speed + 10 feet toward the triggering creature,
traveling on water and on land. Once the creature is in
reach, the monster makes a Strike against it. The creature is
flat-footed against this Strike.But agreed on the Striding Fire. That's a seriously bad action waste if it only has a mild effect on a critical failure and otherwise is just "normal walking." For a level 6 creature, some damage included in that makes sense.
Well i feel foolish, i could of sworn i ctrl+F aquatic combat on my pdf and could only find that single mention of it, it is missing a range for it though.
I feel the Tatzlwyrm should have a grab ability on its bite as it did on its 1e iteration. Many monsters in this bestiary and the previous ones that use grapple tactics at least have the grab ability and it just seems odd that this monster doesnt.
Yeah, at the least the aquatic ambush description has the formula for calculating the distance possible. It is an error that it isn't listed in the entry still, is my guess.
And again regarding the tatzlwyrm, maybe they thought for a level 2 creature that an auto grab on hit was just too strong? I don't recall seeing any creatures auto grab until a few levels later in my campaigns.
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Is it just me or do they cover nearly all of the monsters in nearly all of the earlier Pathfinder adventure paths?
I couldn't help but notice I could run a 2nd Edition Skulls and Shackles VERY easily now. I'd only have to convert some of the DCs on the fly, and some named NPCs in advance and that's it.
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Is it just me or do they cover nearly all of the monsters in nearly all of the earlier Pathfinder adventure paths?
I couldn't help but notice I could run a 2nd Edition Skulls and Shackles VERY easily now. I'd only have to convert some of the DCs on the fly, and some named NPCs in advance and that's it.
I think its because early pathfinder adventures had very small pool of monsters to draw from... I could be wrong though since Skulls & Shackles is one of few aps I've never read in case I could play them
Is it just me or do they cover nearly all of the monsters in nearly all of the earlier Pathfinder adventure paths?
I couldn't help but notice I could run a 2nd Edition Skulls and Shackles VERY easily now. I'd only have to convert some of the DCs on the fly, and some named NPCs in advance and that's it.
Sort of a side note, but I’ve been picking away at Second Darkness, and https://pf2.easytool.es/ has been great for named NPCs specifically, since it includes all the NPCs from scenarios.
You might have to change a spell or two in the stat block to use their on page tactics, and I’ll have to do a WBL pass at some point, but it really speeds up an already fast process to be able to use PFS stat blocks.
Is it just me or do they cover nearly all of the monsters in nearly all of the earlier Pathfinder adventure paths?
I couldn't help but notice I could run a 2nd Edition Skulls and Shackles VERY easily now. I'd only have to convert some of the DCs on the fly, and some named NPCs in advance and that's it.
Sort of a side note, but I’ve been picking away at Second Darkness, and https://pf2.easytool.es/ has been great for named NPCs specifically, since it includes all the NPCs from scenarios.
You might have to change a spell or two in the stat block to use their on page tactics, and I’ll have to do a WBL pass at some point, but it really speeds up an already fast process to be able to use PFS stat blocks.
Wow. EasyTool has a lot more features than the last time I checked! Very cool!
Can't seem to find the named NPCs though...
Oh, I mean they have a bunch of NPCs from scenarios, so rather than building one from scratch, just use a scenario one of the appropriate level.
For instance, instead of rebuilding a level 1 bard for the first fight in second darkness, I just popped in Nalla, Rebel Leader. Change 1 cantrip, and she’s ready to be played.
If you're having trouble finding the named NPCs, basically you can either use the tree to browse the Source Books section, then pick the AP or scenario book, then Creatures, and find them that way. They won't show up in the overall "creatures" section.
Or you can just type their name into the search box, if you already know it.
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Yes this is useful and should only become more so as more content is released
For example I need a level 3 barbarian (Serpents Skull) so can just take the level 4 one from Plaguestone and apply the weak template and reskin as required
Given the current content it is well suited to the first book or two of early APs
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But yeah, my nitpicks are of this type of nature: Remorhaz in bestiary 1 mentions that ancient ones of them turn into frost worm while frost worm in bestiary 2 mentions their origins are unknown. So umm.. Does that mean remorhaz info on them being in stage of life of frost worm is incorrect?
I can only say that I was unaware of the remorhaz sidebar when I wrote the frost worm sidebar.
Personally, I don't think they're related as they have very different morphologies. (And as far as I know, they weren't related before.)
That said, it has been previously established that the Varki use the same word for both remorhazes and frost worms, so that may be the source of the confusion. The remorhaz entry may be what the Varki believe, a view not necessarily shared by scholars elsewhere.
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But yeah, my nitpicks are of this type of nature: Remorhaz in bestiary 1 mentions that ancient ones of them turn into frost worm while frost worm in bestiary 2 mentions their origins are unknown. So umm.. Does that mean remorhaz info on them being in stage of life of frost worm is incorrect?I can only say that I was unaware of the remorhaz sidebar when I wrote the frost worm sidebar.
Personally, I don't think they're related as they have very different morphologies. (And as far as I know, they weren't related before.)
That said, it has been previously established that the Varki use the same word for both remorhazes and frost worms, so that may be the source of the confusion. The remorhaz entry may be what the Varki believe, a view not necessarily shared by scholars elsewhere.
It's the confusing thing where 1e bestiaries said they eat one another, but first bestiary 2e bestiary added that note. That said, that sidebar COULD be mistake since I don't think frost worms are that rare to be ancient remorhaz
And as you said, it doesn't make much sense for centipede like creature to lose their legs(and fire breathing) and turn into worms morphology wise
I have a question and hopefully someone can answer.
So the side note on the Witchfire (Wisps and Fire) it states that Will-O-Wisps are drawn to Witchfires specifically because of the fear-inducing Witchflame Aura manifested by the Witchfire.
However the Witchfire does not have an aura ability and witchflame does not have a fear trait or effect.
Could someone clarify this for me please?
I love that the Shoggti has an ability called Braincloud. One imagines they lurk in the seas of material plane worlds to inflict it on would be sacrifices to the volcano gods.
My biggest problem right now is that I love the glass golem but can't find a way to fit it into my campaign.
My biggest problem right now is that I love the glass golem but can't find a way to fit it into my campaign.
What is the campaign? If it helps - on more than one occasion paizo have used these as “Stained Glass” Golems - in temples and the like ...
So, might roll around to a review later, but I'm nonplussed to see some of the daemons in such bright colors. Derghodaemon and olethrodaemon are outright cartoony, and thanadaemon just sounds like Skeletor in my head.
The nice thing for staple creatures is I get two versions for the art to choose from in a lot of cases.
All in all, still happy.
Oh, and very happy to see that the velstrac reprints moved them from uncommon to common so they can be summoned!
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So, might roll around to a review later, but I'm nonplussed to see some of the daemons in such bright colors. Derghodaemon and olethrodaemon are outright cartoony, and thanadaemon just sounds like Skeletor in my head.
I like the daemon art, but the color palate for this and the azatas in Bestiary 1 could have been swapped for sure.
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I like the daemon art, but the color palate for this and the azatas in Bestiary 1 could have been swapped for sure.So, might roll around to a review later, but I'm nonplussed to see some of the daemons in such bright colors. Derghodaemon and olethrodaemon are outright cartoony, and thanadaemon just sounds like Skeletor in my head.
Could have, but now the daemons kinda remind me of the Real Ghostbusters, especially the “Do Not Open Until Doomsday” episode. In a good way. I dig the lurid vividness of this art.
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The only thing that irks me is the sidebar on lycanthropy, and it's really a pet peeve more than anything. Greek is not a language that exists in Golarion, so the etymology of the word would be different so retconning it to only refer to werewolves in universe seems.... pointless, and especially the fact that non wolf werecreatures take offense to the title but are not given anything more eloquent for themselves than "man rat" "man tiger" or "man boar". I dont know I just feel like 'werecreatue' doesnt flow nearly as well as lycanthrope.
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The only thing that irks me is the sidebar on lycanthropy, and it's really a pet peeve more than anything. Greek is not a language that exists in Golarion, so the etymology of the word would be different so retconning it to only refer to werewolves in universe seems.... pointless, and especially the fact that non wolf werecreatures take offense to the title but are not given anything more eloquent for themselves than "man rat" "man tiger" or "man boar". I dont know I just feel like 'werecreatue' doesnt flow nearly as well as lycanthrope.
It actually does, in the sense that Earth exists in this reality as well and has been visited by people from Golarion.
As for “real world language doesn’t exist in fantasy setting so it shouldn’t be used” that’s a dangerous and all consuming rabbit hole that will have you having to rename absolutely everything.
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The only thing that irks me is the sidebar on lycanthropy, and it's really a pet peeve more than anything. Greek is not a language that exists in Golarion, so the etymology of the word would be different so retconning it to only refer to werewolves in universe seems.... pointless, and especially the fact that non wolf werecreatures take offense to the title but are not given anything more eloquent for themselves than "man rat" "man tiger" or "man boar". I dont know I just feel like 'werecreatue' doesnt flow nearly as well as lycanthrope.
Pssst, the first bestiary has tyrannosaurs. People on Golarion apparently call it that. Let that sink in, sloooooowly.
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The only thing that irks me is the sidebar on lycanthropy, and it's really a pet peeve more than anything. Greek is not a language that exists in Golarion, so the etymology of the word would be different so retconning it to only refer to werewolves in universe seems.... pointless, and especially the fact that non wolf werecreatures take offense to the title but are not given anything more eloquent for themselves than "man rat" "man tiger" or "man boar". I dont know I just feel like 'werecreatue' doesnt flow nearly as well as lycanthrope.It actually does, in the sense that Earth exists in this reality as well and has been visited by people from Golarion.
As for “real world language doesn’t exist in fantasy setting so it shouldn’t be used” that’s a dangerous and all consuming rabbit hole that will have you having to rename absolutely everything.
Im aware earth exists however I doubt that a far off planet is influential enough to spread an obscure word to widespread use among less educated masses on golarion.
For your second point it's less real world language should not be used, and more real world etymology roots should not justify an in universe understanding of something, in fantasy as a genre licanthropy applies to most were creatures, that the origin of the word is more specific should be in my eyes no different than the fact that the origin of the word goblin refered to a fae| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
The only thing that irks me is the sidebar on lycanthropy, and it's really a pet peeve more than anything. Greek is not a language that exists in Golarion, so the etymology of the word would be different so retconning it to only refer to werewolves in universe seems.... pointless, and especially the fact that non wolf werecreatures take offense to the title but are not given anything more eloquent for themselves than "man rat" "man tiger" or "man boar". I dont know I just feel like 'werecreatue' doesnt flow nearly as well as lycanthrope.Pssst, the first bestiary has tyrannosaurs. People on Golarion apparently call it that. Let that sink in, sloooooowly.
you got my point backwards. I'm not saying the word should not be used I'm saying nitpicking meaning based on etymology a word went through on earth is dumb I think they SHOULD be called lycanthrope and tyrannosaurus and whatever. It is saying lucanthropy is wrong because the etimology refers to wolf that irks me, it would be like renaming dinosaurs because its calling them lizards
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100% agreement with Rysky here. Especially for a game written in English; there are so many common words that are straight lifts from other languages.
I kind of agree with you too though. Even if the original Greek version of the myth is in fact the origin for "lycanthrope" on Golarion, it makes just as much sense for the word to refer to the general condition of an inheritable and transferable curse causing one to transform into animals, rather than the specific wolf version.
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Creative Director
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I 100% agree witht he use of the word "Lycanthrope". It should not be the word for all werecreatures; that's why we changed it from lycanthrope in 1st edition to werecreature in 2nd.
The only place we talk about lycanthropy in the book is in a single sidebar on page 291, and it's in the context of "Many scholars..." When you see us attribute in-world lore like this, the intent is to frame that lore in a potentially unreliable narrator. Some scholars are wrong, and those who apply the word "lycanthropy" to all werecreatures are not correct (as the sidebar notes) yet they still do so. In the same way we in this world use words like "Kleenex" for facial tissues, "band-aid" for adhesive bandages, or "D&D" for fantasy-based RPGs (couldn't resist that one! :P).
The whole point of the sidebar was to enable the use of the word "lycanthrope" in the game, if only as an often-misused term, so that readers who look back at other 1st edition products aren't potentially confused, and because the word itself is a really neat word and I didn't want it to get completely excised from the game.
As for using real-world words... look at it this way. When we publish books like this, we're translating the words to English (or Italian or Spanish or whatever) so all of us at Paizo can edit them and so all of you out there can read them. None of us can speak or read Taldane or any other made-up language from Golarion, so we don't publish in that language. If we did, words like "lycanthrope" and "tyrannosaurs" would be spelled differently and with a different alphabet and would sound different... as would words like "wizard" or "cat" or "the." :-P
Speaking of is there anywhere we can get a full list of rebrands and renames?
Speaking of is there anywhere we can get a full list of rebrands and renames?Someone might have built one on their own, but we haven't built one that's been publicly released (nor do we have plans to).
ah that's unfortunate it would make navigating the srd way less of a headache, but I understand if it's not a priority
Someone is doing one of reddit right now