I'm trying to build a pseudo paladin that is somewhat viable at defending/healing (but I would also like it to hit hard in a pinch) and is a melee character. My DM wants me to stay within the rules of the books, so Homebrew is out at this point. I've been trying to look over the books, but my brain continues to get overloaded thinking of possible combinations. We are starting at lvl 2, but I like to think ahead at least a couple levels, so I know what I'm doing whenever we level up in game. My eye has been drawn to the Wrecking Fists Mystic Epiphany, as that seems it can be a good "smite" mechanic (similar to 5e Paladins). Additionally, I kinda had the idea of taking the Soldier Qi Adept fighting style later on in levels for a long range attack that could stack the "smite" damage as well. Would this work within the rules of the books? Does anyone have any advice for optimizing this type of character? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!
Oligoden wrote: I'm trying to build a pseudo paladin that is somewhat viable at defending/healing (but I would also like it to hit hard in a pinch) and is a melee character. My DM wants me to stay within the rules of the books, so Homebrew is out at this point. I've been trying to look over the books, but my brain continues to get overloaded thinking of possible combinations. We are starting at lvl 2, but I like to think ahead at least a couple levels, so I know what I'm doing whenever we level up in game. My eye has been drawn to the Wrecking Fists Mystic Epiphany, as that seems it can be a good "smite" mechanic (similar to 5e Paladins). Additionally, I kinda had the idea of taking the Soldier Qi Adept fighting style later on in levels for a long range attack that could stack the "smite" damage as well. Would this work within the rules of the books? Does anyone have any advice for optimizing this type of character? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance! My immediate thought is a vanguard for the defending aspect. Take some ranks in mysticism, and spend a small portion of your money making healing serums mk 1.
You spend the fight up in melee defending the squishier teammates, then bring out your healing potions to patch people up. 10% of your expected wealth at level 7 is something like 46 serums of healing - which should be more than enough for whole campaigns unless you're encountering a lot of difficult fights.
Suggestions:
Race: Ilthisarian for reach, natural weapons and a bonus to Str; or Morlamaw for reach and natural weapons, though they lack Str bonus;
Soldier: Aesthetic Warrior for the free Improved Unarmed Strike, lethal and non-archaic damage, and free block, grapple, and stun special properties to unarmed strikes; Qi Adept for the advantages to unarmed strikes;
Mystic: Wrecking Firsts epiphany for converting spells into extra unarmed strike damage. The connection is tricky - I'd suggest taking Healer, but you'd have to take the epiphany only at 3rd level, to avoid losing Healing Channel at 1st level. If healing won't be that important, Star Shaman and Shaper have some nice bonuses at 3rd level (if you even raise your mystic levels that high);
Feats: Heavy armor proficiency (you lose it for the aesthetic warrior alternate class feature) and Improved Combat Maneuver (Grapple) to combine with the grapple special property of your unarmed strikes;
Gear: Ring of Fangs, to increase Weapon Specialization damage to 2 x level instead of 1,5 x level.
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If this works, I believe you got a pretty deadly "monk" (or a "paladin" that uses his bare hands), though it'll take some levels for everything to fall in place.
Garretmander wrote: Oligoden wrote: I'm trying to build a pseudo paladin that is somewhat viable at defending/healing (but I would also like it to hit hard in a pinch) and is a melee character. My DM wants me to stay within the rules of the books, so Homebrew is out at this point. I've been trying to look over the books, but my brain continues to get overloaded thinking of possible combinations. We are starting at lvl 2, but I like to think ahead at least a couple levels, so I know what I'm doing whenever we level up in game. My eye has been drawn to the Wrecking Fists Mystic Epiphany, as that seems it can be a good "smite" mechanic (similar to 5e Paladins). Additionally, I kinda had the idea of taking the Soldier Qi Adept fighting style later on in levels for a long range attack that could stack the "smite" damage as well. Would this work within the rules of the books? Does anyone have any advice for optimizing this type of character? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance! My immediate thought is a vanguard for the defending aspect. Take some ranks in mysticism, and spend a small portion of your money making healing serums mk 1.
You spend the fight up in melee defending the squishier teammates, then bring out your healing potions to patch people up. 10% of your expected wealth at level 7 is something like 46 serums of healing - which should be more than enough for whole campaigns unless you're encountering a lot of difficult fights.
Unfortunately due to the setting our DM is having us play in, Solarions and Vanguards have been removed as an option for PC currently. I do appreciate the feedback though! Sorry I didn't specify in the OG post.
The Ragi wrote: Suggestions:
Race: Ilthisarian for reach, natural weapons and a bonus to Str; or Morlamaw for reach and natural weapons, though they lack Str bonus;
Soldier: Aesthetic Warrior for the free Improved Unarmed Strike, lethal and non-archaic damage, and free block, grapple, and stun special properties to unarmed strikes; Qi Adept for the advantages to unarmed strikes;
Mystic: Wrecking Firsts epiphany for converting spells into extra unarmed strike damage. The connection is tricky - I'd suggest taking Healer, but you'd have to take the epiphany only at 3rd level, to avoid losing Healing Channel at 1st level. If healing won't be that important, Star Shaman and Shaper have some nice bonuses at 3rd level (if you even raise your mystic levels that high);
Feats: Heavy armor proficiency (you lose it for the aesthetic warrior alternate class feature) and Improved Combat Maneuver (Grapple) to combine with the grapple special property of your unarmed strikes;
Gear: Ring of Fangs, to increase Weapon Specialization damage to 2 x level instead of 1,5 x level.
----
If this works, I believe you got a pretty deadly "monk" (or a "paladin" that uses his bare hands), though it'll take some levels for everything to fall in place.
These are some amazing suggestions! Thank you! I didn't think about going for the Aesthetic Warrior alternative. If I was reading correctly, does that mean I could grapple with the ranged unarmed strike from the Qi Adept fighting style? There's some interesting/weird things going on with this combo, hahaha. Another question, do you think Power Armor proficiency would be worth a Feat down the line?
On the other hand, I'm not a big fan of large melee characters - their ranged allies ocasionally suffer because of the free cover they provide.
If we open to medium races with Str bonus and Natural Weapons, we get the Nuar, Reptoid, Formian, Pathra (with the Hunter-Killer or Krreyvash alternate ability adjustments & the Natural Weapons alternate racial trait) and Vesk (including the Lambent and Warblood alternate ability adjustments).
Of all these, I'd probably go with the standard Vesk possibly with the Vesk Venom alternate racial trait (for one extra thing to do with your unarmed strike), or the Warblood Vesk alterate ability adjustment, which also has a bonus to Dex instead of Con.
Oligoden wrote: If I was reading correctly, does that mean I could grapple with the ranged unarmed strike from the Qi Adept fighting style? No, the Plasma Blast lets you specifically "make unarmed attacks at range", while Grapple is a Combat Maneuver made with a standard action.
Both use melee attack rolls, but are diferent actions.
Oligoden wrote: Another question, do you think Power Armor proficiency would be worth a Feat down the line? I have yet to dig into powered armor, but considering this build already has a high Str, I don't see much advantage in using one - in fact, it might be detrimental, since there are very few Str 20 powered armors available at lower levels, and your character should have that much at about level 2 or 3.
The Ragi wrote: Oligoden wrote: If I was reading correctly, does that mean I could grapple with the ranged unarmed strike from the Qi Adept fighting style? No, the Plasma Blast lets you specifically "make unarmed attacks at range", while Grapple is a Combat Maneuver made with a standard action.
Both use melee attack rolls, but are diferent actions.
Oligoden wrote: Another question, do you think Power Armor proficiency would be worth a Feat down the line? I have yet to dig into powered armor, but considering this build already has a high Str, I don't see much advantage in using one - in fact, it might be detrimental, since there are very few Str 20 powered armors available at lower levels, and your character should have that much at about level 2 or 3. Oh, I see. Well, it would've been really strange if you could grapple something like that. Since I'm just lvl 2 at this point, do you think one level in each class to start with? Obviously Soldier first for the proficiencies, and I wonder at what level the multiclass into Mystic loses its benefits. Especially since I'd be using slots to deal the extra damage from Wrecking Fists. I'd like to be able to do Wrecking Fists more often, so the additional spell slots would be the main reason for more Mystic levels. (Unless there is a way to get more slots without going up in level in casting class?)
You need at least 5 levels of soldier to get all the best abilities out of Qi Adept. If you keep at soldier, it seems the most you'll get are gear boosts, of which Unarmed Mauler seems to be the most relevant, but I might be missing something (Melee Striker doesn't seem to qualify for unarmed attacks)
The mystic levels mostly depend on which connection you'll pick up: if Healer, I'd wait to take wrecking fists on level 3; if anything else, take wrecking fists right away. A higher wisdom gives you extra spells, but that's it.
Having no practical experience with this build, I can't go further than recommending soldier5/mystic1 or soldier5/mystic3 for it to be fully functional.
After that you can decide how it fits your gameplay style: the higher BAB of the soldier to hit easier, or the extra spells for more damage (and also casting the spells themselves, on occasion).
But, on theory, this seems like a solid "holy (fist) warrior".
You might want to consider shields, as well.
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