to reroll. luckstone, allying dart

Pathfinder Adventure Card Society

We just finished core set adventure 2, but are still arguing when these 2 cards come up. I've searched a lot before asking here, and I appreciate your time.

The main debate with Luckstone is as follows. Currently for "On your check, bury to reroll", since it affects the check and doesn't explicitly say after the roll, we are assuming it must be played before the roll. Thus, you can't roll the dice for the check, then based on the results decide if you want to bury Luckstone to reroll. But this seems like a useless power, so we argue about it, saying things like "any reroll powers can be played right after a roll" -- but we don't have anything in the rulebook to back that up either (note rules say "powers that allow your require you to reroll dice happen [after the roll]" but not "can be played [after the roll]". This power is juxtaposed next to "On your check, after the roll, recharge to add 1" which explicitly calls out "after the roll".

Similarly, we have the power on Allying Dart: if you reveal it for your combat check, "you may additionally discard to reroll." The same debate comes up here, but it's slightly altered. This one explicitly says "you *may*..." meaning it is optional - but we aren't clear if that means you have to make that call when revealing for the combat check before the dice are rolled, or after the dice are rolled. Because... once again why would you decide to discard to reroll before you've seen the results of the dice? But it is a power that affects the check, so presumably you need to decide to use the power before the dice roll?

In the rulebook, after rolling the dice there is "Powers that allow or require you to reroll the dice happen now". In the example of Luckstone, we read that as "Earlier in the check, before the roll, you decided to use it and now you must bury it and reroll". In the case of Allying Dart, we also read that as "Earlier when you revealed it for your combat check, you were offered the option to additionally discard to reroll. You decided to use that additional power at that time, and now you must discard to reroll" -- but again that seems silly.

Are we doing this all wrong? Could anyone provide clarity?

Thanks again friends!

4/5 ****

They definitely get played after the roll.

Rules p8 wrote:
You may not use a power that doesn’t apply to your current situation. For example, you may not play a card to reduce damage when damage isn’t being suffered, and you may not play a card to evade a monster when you are not encountering a monster.

Until you've rolled, you cannot play a reroll effect as there's nothing to reroll.

This is additionally supported by several examples later in the book.

Core Book p24 wrote:
With both blessings in play, Sajan’s combat check is 3d8 + 1d6 + 2. Sam rolls horribly and gets a total of 11, including a 1 on one of the d8s. This is not enough to defeat the Ghoul, so Sajan is in danger of suffering some damage. Remembering the hour power, Sam discards a card to reroll the d8 that rolled a 1.
Core Book p25 wrote:

Alice reveals the Longspear from her hand, allowing her to use Amiri’s Melee skill + 1d8. Amiri has Melee: Strength +2, and her Strength is d12. Alice looks at Amiri’s first character power, but decides that she doesn’t need to go that far just yet. The Longspear power she’s using says “you may additionally discard to reroll the dice,” which should be good enough if she rolls low. Alice says “I got this” to offers of help from Lee and Sam, then rolls a 17, banishing the Boggart. She ends her turn. Since she revealed the Longspear, and didn’t need to discard it for its reroll ability, she is already at her hand size, so doesn’t need to discard or draw.[/quote

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

All reroll powers get played after the roll. Keep in mind that you're still inside of the check, so the one boon of each type per check limit is still in effect. If you played an item to boost your check, you can't play another item (such as Luckstone) to reroll.

The "additionally" power on allying dart is still part of the original time you played the card, even though you don't choose whether or not to use the additionally part until after the roll is made.

Thanks for the explanations; these are really useful. Time to put this household argument to rest. :-D

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