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Hiya - Question about selling items in Pathfinder Society 2e.
What are the rules for selling standard equipment in PFS 2e that you have back to a "store" to upgrade or just coin back?
Second, if I buy an item, like a Dagger +1, off a chronicle sheet then want to upgrade or change the weapon to a Shortsword +1, do I pay the difference, sell the item back, just lose the item..so on.
Thanks, Fellows!!
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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In the Pathfinder Society Guide to Play you can find the Purchasing Guidelines which say this:So, 10% or free?
The Society has a specialist at the Grand Lodge who can apply or swap out runes for agents of the Pathfinder Society in good standing. This service is free, and requires no check, but is generally only available before boons are slotted or once the adventure is complete, not during the middle of an adventure.
It says free.
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Ah. I do remember this conversation from before. Player asked what would happen if they bought +1 full plate off a Chronicle, and transferred the rune to their own armor. Can they now sell back the expensive base item?
While there's nothing stopping that from happening now, I believe it was acknowledged at the time that it was against the spirit of the rules and would eventually be addressed.
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Ah. I do remember this conversation from before. Player asked what would happen if they bought +1 full plate off a Chronicle, and transferred the rune to their own armor. Can they now sell back the expensive base item?
While there's nothing stopping that from happening now, I believe it was acknowledged at the time that it was against the spirit of the rules and would eventually be addressed.
What I expect to happen is that if a someone bought a +1 full plate from a chronicle then pulled the +1 rune off, all that remains is the full plate. The player can sell back the full plate at 50%, but you can't sell back the +1 because you still have it.
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Hum. Interesting, guess I missed how it relates to selling normal goods at 50% as in the Core Book. Let me see if I understand (...sorry never played PFS 1e, new):
Ruins: To understand - if I buy a shortsword +1 for 25 gp, I can transfer the +1 to a rapier or greatsword and then sell the non-magical shortsword for 4.5 silver?
All non-magical equipment, like upgrading a simple lock to an average lock is just the difference in cost (13 gold). You do not sell back the lock for 1/2 price, then pay full price for the new kit - which would be 14 gold spent.
I know the example is small, but the cost adds up in higher levels.
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I was that player. This PFS rule may have another interesting consequence.
The wording of the rule makes me wonder if the intent is to allow players to "slot" runes like they slot boons. It says you can do it before you slot your boons, which typically happens after the mission briefing.
"Oh, you mentioned a haunting? Hang on while I pop down to Absalom to get my ghost touch and disrupting runes transferred to my weapon."
If that wasn't the intent, then they could have simply said the service is only available between adventures.
It does say generally. This, to me, means the GM will decide if the character has time to get the runes moved around or not. The adventure may start immediately. Or the adventure does not start in Absolum, where the Grade Lodge is located, so would not have access to the specialist. Thinking about the adventures I have played, I can only think of 2 or 3 that are actually in Absolum.
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What I expect to happen is that if a someone bought a +1 full plate from a chronicle then pulled the +1 rune off, all that remains is the full plate. The player can sell back the full plate at 50%, but you can't sell back the +1 because you still have it.Ah. I do remember this conversation from before. Player asked what would happen if they bought +1 full plate off a Chronicle, and transferred the rune to their own armor. Can they now sell back the expensive base item?
While there's nothing stopping that from happening now, I believe it was acknowledged at the time that it was against the spirit of the rules and would eventually be addressed.
The problem with that thinking, in 2E, is that a +1 shortsword and a +1 club cost the same (but a regular shortsword and a regular club do not). If you allow the base item to then be sold back, you're recuperating a cost you never spent.
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Ok, still confused on my understanding. Normal goods sell at 50% as in the Core Book. Let me see if I understand (...sorry never played PFS 1e, new):
If I buy a shortsword +1 for 25 gp, I can transfer the +1 to a rapier or greatsword and then sell the non-magical shortsword for 4.5 silver?
All non-magical equipment, like upgrading a simple lock to an average lock is just the difference in cost (13 gold). You do not sell back the lock for 1/2 price, then pay full price for the new kit - which would be 14 gold spent.
I think this could add up at higher levels.
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Rules for upgrading are only for magic items, not for mundane non-magical equipment. So you can't upgrade a simple lock to an average lock by just paying the difference.
As for buying a +1 weapon, removing the rune, then selling back, that is the point of this thread because it is not clear what would happen.
I believe that after the +1 rune is removed, all you have is the base item and you can sell it back for half price. But it is unclear in the guide what to do for PFS.
Venture-Captain, Online—VTT
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As things are right now, it seems like there is no restriction on choosing the most expensive basic weapon you can get to have with your +1 rune, then transferring it to the weapon you actually want it on and selling the initial weapon for 50%. I do not believe this is the intended method however since it really does seem like those who know of the 'trick' get extra wealth over those who assume it's not meant to work like that.
PF1 had the whole "this item has zero value if resold" rule for situations like this and I think it needs to apply here as well. I don't know exactly how you'd phrase it to be clear, concise and avoid issues but I'm sure smarter people than me can figure it out.
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As things are right now, it seems like there is no restriction on choosing the most expensive basic weapon you can get to have with your +1 rune, then transferring it to the weapon you actually want it on and selling the initial weapon for 50%. I do not believe this is the intended method however since it really does seem like those who know of the 'trick' get extra wealth over those who assume it's not meant to work like that.
This would violate the guidance not to game the system to get a financial benefit. But unless a GM was to enforce it, there is not much that can be done with out a clear statement from the OP leadership.
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Yes, you can do that. You must still purchase the sawtooth saber, though (assuming you have access to it, since it's Uncommon).
What you can't do is just "change" the shortsword into a sabre for "no additional cost".
And so, if you purchase the +1 shortsword, and purchase the sawtooth saber, and transfer the rune between adventures during Downtime, that leaves you with a mundane shortsword.
What the people in this thread are discussing is that you shouldn't be able to sell back the shortsword at half value, because you didn't pay anything for.
Does that make sense?
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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You'd honestly just be better off purchasing a +1 sawtooth saber.
You can't afford either weapon until 2nd level anyways, and they're the same price.
Yeah but if you're for example level 3 with some gold burning a hole in your chronicle sheet, and there's a +1 striking sword on a chronicle, then it's worth buying that and having the rune moved to your weapon of choice.
With a sword the sellback value is negligible, but when we're talking +1 full plate, that's a 15gp sellback value on the armor.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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I think it would be fairest if these items just had a sellback value of 0. That way, you make a modest saving if you happened to want exactly the item on the chronicle, but you're not making a loss if you transfer it instead.
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I think it would be fairest if these items just had a sellback value of 0. That way, you make a modest saving if you happened to want exactly the item on the chronicle, but you're not making a loss if you transfer it instead.
I don't know about this. There is value in the base item.
I think they need to change how they price the magic items to include the base cost of the item like it is done in 1e.
In either case, a clear ruling is needed because it will cause problems.
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Yes, you can do that. You must still purchase the sawtooth saber, though (assuming you have access to it, since it's Uncommon).
What you can't do is just "change" the shortsword into a sabre for "no additional cost".
And so, if you purchase the +1 shortsword, and purchase the sawtooth saber, and transfer the rune between adventures during Downtime, that leaves you with a mundane shortsword.
What the people in this thread are discussing is that you shouldn't be able to sell back the shortsword at half value, because you didn't pay anything for.
Does that make sense?
It does Nefreet. Thanks for the clarification. I'm still kinda new, so I appreciate it. :)
Interesting to see how my OP developed for other issues.
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I think it would be fairest if these items just had a sellback value of 0. That way, you make a modest saving if you happened to want exactly the item on the chronicle, but you're not making a loss if you transfer it instead.I don't know about this. There is value in the base item.
There isn't, though, when you purchase a rune-inscribed weapon to begin with. Although a mundane Club is free and a mundane Aldori Dueling Sword is 20 gp, a +1 Club and a +1 Aldori Dueling Sword both cost the same 35gp.
I think they need to change how they price the magic items to include the base cost of the item like it is done in 1e.
I highly doubt that would happen, as it was clearly designed to work this way. Regardless, that would require that the core rules be errata'd, which is beyond the purview of this Forum.
In either case, a clear ruling is needed because it will cause problems.
Absolutely. I think it could be as easy as an addition to the Guide that reads "When purchasing magical weapons and armor, the base item itself has a resell value of 0gp."
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I don't know about this. There is value in the base item.There isn't, though, when you purchase a rune-inscribed weapon to begin with. Although a mundane Club is free and a mundane Aldori Dueling Sword is 20 gp, a +1 Club and a +1 Aldori Dueling Sword both cost the same 35gp.
On this we will just disagree. Not for the first time. :)
I think they need to change how they price the magic items to include the base cost of the item like it is done in 1e.I highly doubt that would happen, as it was clearly designed to work this way. Regardless, that would require that the core rules be errata'd, which is beyond the purview of this Forum.
Yes, I view this as a design flaw to be honesty. I can only guess to the reason for it, but it does not make sense to me to do it this way. Totally different from how it was handled for 1e and Starfinder.
In either case, a clear ruling is needed because it will cause problems.Absolutely. I think it could be as easy as an addition to the Guide that reads "When purchasing magical weapons and armor, the base item itself has a resell value of 0gp."
This is likely the best and easiest action to take.
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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My advice to people (as I try to get this clarified to update the guide) is until we get clarification, it would be wise to either pay the 10% (but track it so that you can get a rebate) or don't pay it, but keep track and hold onto some extra money, in case you are wrong.
Right now, either interpretation is quite legitimate, and even I, who *put those words in the guide*, don't know which is meant.