Grasping Reach Weapon Choices

[Red Griffyn]

Leshy PCs can take a L1 Ancestry feat to gain reach on a 2H weapon at the cost of one weapon die size and 1 action. With this in mind, I was wondering what people are thinking regarding what weapons/choices are fun/optimal. Here are the available options:

Weapon----------Dam/Hands---Type-----Traits
Falchion-----------1d10 S--2--------Sword---Forceful, sweep
Greataxe----------1d12 S--2--------Axe-------Sweep
Greatclub---------1d10 B--2-------Club------Backswing, shove
Greatpick---------1d10 P--2--------Pick------Fatal d12
Greatsword------1d12 S--2---------Sword--Versatile P
Maul----------------1d12 B--2-------Ham.-----Shove
Scythe--------------1d10 S--2-------Polearm-Deadly d10, trip
War flail------------1d10 B--2------Flail-------Disarm, sweep, trip
Elven curve bl.---1d8 S---2-------Sword----Elf, finesse, forceful
Spiked chain-----1d8 S---2---------Flail-------Disarm, finesse, trip
Staff-----------------1d4 B---1--------Club------Two-hand d8
Bastard sword---1d8 S---1--------Sword---Two-hand d12
Gnome hook.----1d6 B---1--------Ham.----Gnome, trip, two-hand d10, versatile P
Katana-------------1d6 S---1---------Sword---Deadly d8, two-hand d10, versatile P
Dwarven war.----1d8 S---1--------Axe-------Dwarf, sweep, two-hand d12

Since you're losing a die size you likely want to look at the 1d12 options. Personally, I really like Greatsword for versatile P/S. However there are also some cool options with the Bastard Sword and Dwarven Waraxe since they offer one or two handed options so you could choose a more flexible fight style based on the enemy (i.e., sword and board, or two hand, or two hand with reach).

For a fighter, there is also the question of what weapon group provides the best critical specialization and what other weapons are in the weapon group that may be of use. Personally that makes Axe/Hammer slightly in my opinion. Both groups provide a one handed throwing weapons (hatchet/Mambele/light hammer) to keep your +2 to hit with your weapon group. Overall, the hammer group has a better critical specialization (dropping an enemy prone with no save) vs. the axe group (possible damage to an adjacent enemy). However, I think a leshy fighter running around with reach axes 'felling his foes' and using swipe + the crit specialization could be a fun flavour. The only downside to Axes/hammers is they are hard limited to S or B weapon damage. On the other hand, swords (i.e., Greatsword/Bastard Sword/Polytool) offer a weapon group that has P/S/B damage but a worse crit specialization, and no throwing weapon.

What are other's thoughts?

[Castilliano]

When I think about gaining Reach with a 2H weapon, I'm not too impressed, losing the die type and paying a feat to do so. Flipping it around to a build that already wants Reach and getting to lose Reach to gain damage makes it more appealing. That is, I'd like this feat if I'd have been using a Reach weapon already. So I'd likely go War Flail for Reach w/ Trip & Blunt, becoming similar to a Flickmace except I can swap to d10s when adjacent and get Sweep too. That's better power and comes online at 1st.

But as you mention, Fighters with one weapon group can benefit too by making a Reach weapon in a weapon group w/o one. I'd still do this only if intending a Reach build as my primary offense, but being able to throw using the same weapon group as your reach weapon makes good versatility.

One interesting choice might be Elven Curve Blade for a Thief-Rogue, since they can't otherwise get Reach w/ Dex-to-damage. Staying a step back can make a difference vs. bosses. It'd take even more investment, but maybe.

None of the others really stand out to me (compared to normal Reach weapons) though I'd think those Pick fans might like a Reach fatal weapon. And picks' crit specialization could get good use out of an early non-MAP AoO.

[Varus Wreckpoint]

I think the spiked chain has its merits. The ability to trip at reach with dex sounds pretty valuable. The problem being thieves would have problems getting proficiency, and cant get crit spec. Maybe for a switch-hitter?

[Varus Wreckpoint]

Also, I don't think that weapons with the [two-hand] trait will work with grasping reach, RAW. The text of the feat says "When you wield a melee weapon that requires two hands". [two-hand] weapons don't require two hands.

[Salamileg]

In regards to the pick, I made a thread about it a while ago, and it's currently up in the air how fatal interacts with Grasping Reach. The fatal die might get reduced, it might not.

EDIT: To clarify, the extra die from fatal definitely wouldn't get reduced, but it's unclear if the increase to d12s would get brought back down to d10s.

[Castilliano]

Salamileg wrote:

In regards to the pick, I made a thread about it a while ago, and it's currently up in the air how fatal interacts with Grasping Reach. The fatal die might get reduced, it might not.

EDIT: To clarify, the extra die from fatal definitely wouldn't get reduced, but it's unclear if the increase to d12s would get brought back down to d10s.

I disagree and think the extra die would get reduced too, due to being a weapon die. Doesn't it get the other bonuses of being a die, like if you had a +1 damage per weapon die effect?

[Red Griffyn]

Varus Wreckpoint wrote:

Also, I don't think that weapons with the [two-hand] trait will work with grasping reach, RAW. The text of the feat says "When you wield a melee weapon that requires two hands". [two-hand] weapons don't require two hands.

This is only put in there to prevent every one handed weapon from becoming a gnome flickmace. I may wield a two handed trait weapon in two hands for and extra die size. At that point I'd consider receipt of those benefits to require two hands and meet the condition RAW and RAI.

Two-handed trait weapons are also capable of being wielded in two hands unlike any generic one handed weapon (e.g., a dagger) where use in two hands isnt possible and/or may actually impinge on its use, or provide no significant additional mechanical advantage.

I'd assume that such a weapon can only have reach if wielded in two hands and not 1 hand as the limitation is also related to the ability to support use of the weapon at an additional 5 ft(i.e., my leshy arms need to interweave into a 5ft viney locked gauntlet to support that use type).

[Red Griffyn]

Castilliano wrote:

Salamileg wrote:

In regards to the pick, I made a thread about it a while ago, and it's currently up in the air how fatal interacts with Grasping Reach. The fatal die might get reduced, it might not.

EDIT: To clarify, the extra die from fatal definitely wouldn't get reduced, but it's unclear if the increase to d12s would get brought back down to d10s.

I disagree and think the extra die would get reduced too, due to being a weapon die. Doesn't it get the other bonuses of being a die, like if you had a +1 damage per weapon die effect?

Take the derail to the existing multipage thread discussing this issue already please.

[Salamileg]

Castilliano wrote:

Salamileg wrote:

In regards to the pick, I made a thread about it a while ago, and it's currently up in the air how fatal interacts with Grasping Reach. The fatal die might get reduced, it might not.

EDIT: To clarify, the extra die from fatal definitely wouldn't get reduced, but it's unclear if the increase to d12s would get brought back down to d10s.

I disagree and think the extra die would get reduced too, due to being a weapon die. Doesn't it get the other bonuses of being a die, like if you had a +1 damage per weapon die effect?

You know what, I think you're right. I didn't realize the extra die from Fatal was also doubled, I thought it worked like Deadly.

[lemeres]

Other than discussion of crits, fatal, and damage dice, I think there is a more important factor: STYLE.

As such, there is only one appropriate choice- rip off Berserk. (sidenote- sorry I couldn't post a bitter pic; few people post images of this minor character, and posting to the chapter directly would be...messy, given the content).

So grab an ax and go forth, Zondark!