Difference between Tables 10-9 & 10-10 for WBL when the whole party starts above Lv1?


Rules Discussion


So our GM is planning on starting us at Level 5, and I'm trying to plan my character but am stuck due to my difficulty understanding the contrast between what a 5th-level party of 4 would have if they'd started at 1st instead of starting at 5th. I understand that Table 10-10 gives lower Gold values than Table 10-8 because the party would have spent gold instead of hoarding it, and that Consumables aren't listed in 10-10 because a lot of the ones in 10-9 would have been used along the way, and if a player wants some Consumables they can simply buy some with the gold listed in the Currency entry for their level, but the difference between Permanent items is quite stark.

For example, for a Level 5 Party of 4, according to Table 10-9 they have these Permanent Items spread through Party:
6th: 2, 5th: 4, 4th: 4, 3rd: 4, 2nd: 4, 1st: 2

Which means they average out to these Permanent Items per Party member:
6th: 0.5, 5th: 1, 4th: 1, 3rd: 1, 2nd: 1, 1st: 0.5

While 10-10 allots these Permanent Items per Party member:
4th: 1, 3rd: 2, 2nd: 1, 1st: 2

Which works out to these Permanent Items spread through Party:
4th: 4, 3rd: 8, 2nd: 4, 1st: 8

With the effect that a 5th-level start nets the party double the 3rd-level items and *quadruple* the 1st-level items, at the loss of all 5th- and 6th-level items. Is this a case of implicit GM interpretation, where the GM should rationalise the values given by Table 10-10 to more closely resemble 10-9's values when it's the whole party starting at a higher level, instead of a new hire? Or did the devs consider starting at a higher level as a party an inherent advantage, necessitating less gear, or something?

Should my character be planned around 10-9's largess, or 10-10's limitations?

Sovereign Court

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You have a couple of advantages starting at higher level:

- You didn't have to spend any gold on stuff that gets used up along the way, like consumable items or items that you replace with other things.

- Instead of finding random loot, you get to pick everything yourself. So although you'll have fewer items, they'll all be the items you really wanted.

Further I'm not sure you read table 10-9 exactly right. Table 10-9 represents the treasure that you should be finding during a level, while table 10-10 is the treasure that a new character should have at the start of the level.

So to get the "hoard" of an organically grown character that just reached level 5, you would add together the rows for level 1-4 from Table 10-9 and divide by 4 players. So this level 5 character would have collected the following permanent items:

L1 - 0.5 (plus starting gear)
L2 - 1
L3 - 1
L4 - 1
L5 - 0.5

And (40+70+12+200+320)/4 = 160.5 gp per person, plus 15gp of starting gear.

There is no such thing as "half" an item, so trade the partial level 5 item in for a level 4 item. Sum starting gear up as well, and you end up with:

L1>5: ?, 1, 1, 2, 0, and 175.5gp

Compare that to a freshly spawned level 5 character:

L1>5: 2, 1, 1, 2, 0, and 50gp.

That's.... eerily similar. The big difference is in the gold. I think that's intended to balance out the two points I mentioned in the beginning: that a new character has more choice in exactly which items they start with, compared to what the GM "dropped". (And yeah, the GM can tailor items a bit, but plenty of us use Adventures Paths to save time because we have busy lives, so often at least part of the drops were thought up by some writer who doesn't know your players.)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Ah okay, yeah I was reading 10-9 incorrectly, that sorts it - thanks!

Sovereign Court

No worries. I learned something myself while answering the question :)

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