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Enlarge gives +2 damage, 10ft reach in exchange for -1AC, -1 Reflex, and a bunch of minor other negatives. I know the bonuses are much more limited this edition, but is this truly worth a level 2 slot?
The size increase and reach is good, specially in classes that have some sort of AoO/Stand Still/Retributive Strike because increase the area that these abilities can affect.
Outside of battle have some use as well because now have higher bulk limit and consider 1 bulk as light.
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The size increase and reach is good, specially in classes that have some sort of AoO/Stand Still/Retributive Strike because increase the area that these abilities can affect.
Outside of battle have some use as well because now have higher bulk limit and consider 1 bulk as light.
While I can see the slight Reaction advantage, the penalty is steep, and it costs casters a lvl2 slot.
Outside of battle: lasts 5 minutes. Not going to really be meaningful except in highly situational cases.
It's not a the good buff for all Str martials that it was, but reach is still valuable for many builds and taking up space can be useful too. And the value of the spells goes up as you level (while the value of the slot goes down). Warriors can use that reach to avoid an AoO from an enemy w/ reach and may need that size increase to do a maneuver against massive monsters. Widening auras is helpful too, most likely on a Champion.
So again, it's not that great a buff on its own, but in a combo or situationally, it can be worthwhile.
(So perhaps not a good PFS Sorcerer pick.)
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But you can enlarge your cat familiar for the perfect hug size, so it's a S tier spell regardless.
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Being physically larger also has niche benefits in blocking off locations and using athletics on bigger creatures.
Its really nice for a Monk using Tangled Forest Stance.
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Bonuses:
+2 damage: 'C' tier bonus. Pretty meh pretty quickly
Reach: 'A' tier bonus. Don't ever underestimate reach, especially with some of the powerful reactions now available.
Cat familiar at perfect hug size: 'S' tier bonus. This doesn't need to be explained.
Physical height: 'D' tier bonus. Reaching high places isn't going to come up too often.
Physical width pro: 'B' tier bonus. Blocking a 10ft hallway can provide a significant tactical benefit, but also forcing enemies to go around your bulk to reach casters helps eat into their movement.
Carry capacity: 'B' tier bonus. 5 minutes is less than the time it takes you to pick up your team mate and run out of the orc camp. When you need it, being able to lift a lot can really come in handy.
Penalties:
-1 AC: 'A' tier penalty. You can go to great lengths to get AC in PF2, and losing a point will always hurt.
-1 Reflex: 'B' tier penalty. Odds are you might not even need to make a reflex save during the 5 minutes. Still sucks if you do.
-1 All dex skills: 'D' tier penalty. You're almost definitely not going to notice.
Physical width con: 'C' tier penalty. Making 5ft hallways difficult terrain is a pain in the neck, but not *too* bad.
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Carry capacity: 'B' tier bonus. 5 minutes is less than the time it takes you to pick up your team mate and run out of the orc camp. When you need it, being able to lift a lot can really come in handy.
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Team mateS. With doubled carrying capacity there is a good chance you can carry multiple people, potentially even your whole party. Which makes for a pretty hilarious retreat.
Enlarge gives +2 damage, 10ft reach in exchange for -1AC, -1 Reflex, and a bunch of minor other negatives. I know the bonuses are much more limited this edition, but is this truly worth a level 2 slot?
You don't see the big picture. Reach Fighter with Enlarge = 8x8 area denial. It's massive!!!
The game plays a lot more around movement now. If your party always stays mobile each and every round enemies will trigger your Fighter's attacks of opportunity. With Combat Reflexes, it's 2 free attacks per round without MAP.Reach is far better in PF2 if you have AoO. In my opinion, using Enlarge this way is even close to overpowered against enemies without AoO.
You'll notice that - to Dex rolls if you're a Dex-based attacker.
But one benefit is it's enlarge any willing creature, not just enlarge person. So, yea, like folks said. Enlarge companions, or whatever. Pretty neat.
Team mateS. With doubled carrying capacity there is a good chance you can carry multiple people, potentially even your whole party. Which makes for a pretty hilarious retreat.
Are you sure? I don't remember it saying anywhere your carrying capacity doubles. I can only find a note saying you treat 10 Bulk 1 items as 1 Bulk for purposes of carrying (essentially treating them as Bulk L).
Team mateS. With doubled carrying capacity there is a good chance you can carry multiple people, potentially even your whole party. Which makes for a pretty hilarious retreat.Are you sure? I don't remember it saying anywhere your carrying capacity doubles. I can only find a note saying you treat 10 Bulk 1 items as 1 Bulk for purposes of carrying (essentially treating them as Bulk L).
Table 6-19 in the page 295, Bulk Limit for large creatures is x2.
Table 6-19 in the page 295, Bulk Limit for large creatures is x2.
Indeed, thanks! Although your equipment should double in Bulk too, so you only get double your "free" capacity.
I'm curious.
Would it let you throw an ally? (Are there rules for that?)
In Kinghts of Everflame, episode 4, a giant zombie throws several human zombies into town. The thrown zombies take quite a bit of damage in the process, I'd assume it's treated like falling damage. But some of them survive it. Jason imposed a -2 on the to hit roll with a thrown zombie, presumably because it's an improvised weapon.
I have ALWAYS asked if the enlarge spell was worth it, even in PF1. The stats have always been a mixed bag. As mentioned- the advantage has always been reach tactics and size competitions with maneuvers.
And back in PF1, it had stiff competition for reach tactics with the longarm spell (which gave a reach bonus without any of the baggage).
In this version... its usefulness is FAR more restricted. Before, practically any class could become a member of the CHURCH OF THE LONG SPEAR- it was an ever present build available for most classes. Even if you didn't have a reach build, you could fake such a build with the extra bit of reach from a spell. But now, only a small few classes have access to appropriate feats to give reactions against movement and the like.
The few reach users still could use the extra reach, but it is certainly not something I would bring to a PFS table since I couldn't be sure that those classes would show up.
If you enlarge your friend with titan wrestler, I think you can maybe grab and pin Tarrasques. So that is nice.
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-1AC, -1 Reflex, and a bunch of minor other negatives
I'd hoped PF2 wouldn't require players to track lots of minor pluses and minuses...
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-1AC, -1 Reflex, and a bunch of minor other negativesI'd hoped PF2 wouldn't require players to track lots of minor pluses and minuses...
Well, they're all bundled up into a single condition, and you only apply the worst penalty of a given type. Any simpler and you're basically playing 5e D&D.