| Minigiant |
On Sunday I will be in a pick up game across two to three sessions.
Part of the game is that it is a full randomly generated team, and we are going to the Jungle having set sail from the "Old World"
Anyway I rolled a Human Ranger (I have never played one nor had an inclination towards them)
My Stats are dreadful (4D6 reroll 1's, drop the lowest, allocate to stat)
Str: 14 Dex: 11 Con: 13 Int: 11 Wis: 13 Cha:9
*I can still reallocate them, and I still have the +2 from being human (Or +2 +2 Dual Talented)
The rest of the party consists of a Gnome Rogue, and a Human Witch
I am left with "Tanking"
We are starting at level 3 so I have a few options and combinations when it comes to Feats etc
What would make the best tank/damage dealer?
I was thinking TWF but, really I have no idea
I need you help, and FAST
Thanks in advance
| avr |
Normal TWF can do damage but isn't particularly good at soaking it up. And it tends to have poor AoOs so isn't 'sticky'. A two-handed weapon could make the AoOs better, or weapon & shield (going for TWF/shield bashing) makes you less squishy.
Edit: I might do weapon & shield, with a heavy shield and a light weapon, maybe a kukri. Two light shields might be better mechanically, but eh, that looks silly. YMMV. Feats might go
1: Improved shield bash
Human: Saving shield
Combat style 2: TWF
3: Shield focus
With plans for
5: Boon companion (you need someone else on the front line)
Combat style 6: Shield master
7: Stumbling bash
9: Improved TWF
Combat style 10: Bashing finish
| DthKnell |
Yeah with those stats I think I would focus more on being Tanky than a DPR machine. Go with weapon and shield style and work in tandem with the rogue to enable his sneak attack. I guess you won't be going very far in your lvls so get your Constitution high enough to alliw you to Tank. The rest is up to you and your mates.
| LordKailas |
Based on your post I assume that you're not allowed to multi-class?
I have the following dual wielding ranger build. The original idea is to take a 2 level dip in Titan Mauler so that you can dual wield butchering axes. Since I assume you're not allowed to multiclass I've dropped the barbarian levels and the butcher axe.
(3rd) Dual Wielding Human Ranger (Ranger)
Race: Human
Class: Ranger(5)
Suggested Archetypes: Infiltrator (Ranger)
Combat Style: Two-Weapon Combat
Spells: Lead Blades
Feats: Power Attack(1st), Possessed Hand(1st), Hand's Autonomy(3rd)
Bonus Feats: Two-Weapon Fighting(2nd)
edit: I noticed the stats you're having to work with and adjusted things, it hurts not being able to get Double Slice. However, at your level the loss of damage on your offhand isn't that big.
| Wonderstell |
Are you allowed to take archetypes? Beastmaster might be an idea, especially if your GM rules that you gain the AC at first level. But you'll have to wait until level 4 either way, since your Axe Beak is medium before that.
Human: +2 in Strength
Racial Traits: Bonus Feat, Heart of the Fey
Traits: Armored Rider, +1 Trait
Levels and Feats:
Beastmaster Ranger
1 Boon Companion, Tower Shield Prof (H)
2 Shield Focus (B) - Weapon and Shield combat style
3 Mobile Bulwark Style
4
Axe Beak
1 Combat Reflexes
2
3
4 Power Attack
====
With plans for:
Human:
5 Mobile Fortress
7 Mobile Stronghold
Axe Beak:
5 Friendly Switch
====
Items:
Wand of CLW (750)
MWK Gandasa: 2d4 Slashing (315)
MWK Lance (310)
Chain Mail (150)
Exotic Military Saddle (60)
Tower Shield (30)x2
Etc Etc
1645/3000 gp (lv 3 wealth)
***
So at level 3, you'd be able to give yourself Total Cover as a move action, and use your standard for attacking. At level 4, you do this mounted with a Lance to get AoO and 1.5x Str. The Axe Beak also has reach, good Strength/Dexterity, so it will be the main damage dealer.
At level 5, you can give Total Cover to both you and your mount, forcing enemies to use move actions (and provoke) if they want to attack you or your mount. Can also do the stupid thing and dual-wield Tower Shields to gain Total Cover in two directions. ACP doesn't apply to your Ride checks as long as you wear medium armor, as per Armored Rider.
| Lelomenia |
I would go with a reach weapon and Shield Brace. That takes three feats to set up, shield focus, shield brace, and power attack. There are several fighting styles that can give you some of those feats (2 handed weapon style, weapon and shield style, etc), but honestly those feats are easy to get, so being able to get them without prereqs doesn’t help much. You could do the reach weapon and shield thing AND go archery style for rapid shot etc; you have 3 feats at 3rd level as a human before you even get to fighting style.
As above, beast master ranger would also be nice if you took boon companion.
| Scott Wilhelm |
I'm very fond of Freebooter. Instead of Favored Enemy, you get to mark any one opponent as a Move Action, then you and all you Allies get +1 Attack and Damage until you redesignate.
I really like the Split Blade Sword. 2d6, 1 handed, and it can do tricks like Disarming, but mostly I just like it because it is a 1 handed Weapon that does 2d6.
1Ranger1: Exotic Weapon, Split-Blade Sword, Weapon Focus, Split-Blade Sword, Freebooter (Archetype)’s Bane, Tracking, Wild Empathy, BAB+1
2R2: Power Attack
3R3: Cleave, Endurance
Endurance is good. Few things make my skin crawl more than that evil look in the GM's eye when he asks, "Are you sleeping in your Armor?"
Even level 1 Rangers can use Magic Wands with Ranger Spells in them. I am very fond of Lead Blades, which causes all your Melee Weapons to do Damage as if they were 1 Size Bigger, so for that Split Blade Sword, you Damage would be 3d6!
1Ranger1: Exotic Weapon, Split-Blade Sword, Weapon Focus, Split-Blade Sword, Freebooter (Archetype)’s Bane, Tracking, Wild Empathy, BAB+1
2R2: 2 Weapon Fighting
3R3: Endurance, Weapon Focus Armor Spikes
You can put Spikes on just about any kind of Armor. You can use a Heavy Shield for your +2 AC and still 2 Weapon Fight with Sword and Armor Spikes.
1Ranger1: Exotic Weapon, Split-Blade Sword, Weapon Focus, Split-Blade Sword, Freebooter (Archetype)’s Bane, Tracking, Wild Empathy, BAB+1
2R2:Shield Slam
3R3: Endurance, 2 Weapon Fighting
As a Ranger Bonus Feat, Rangers don't need to take Improved Shield Bash nor have a +6 BAB to take Shield Slam which grants you a free Bull Rush with every Shield Bash.
Which one? Well that all depends on the particulars of the game and what you yourself want.
How committed are you to single-class Human Ranger?
How much longer after level 3 will the campaign go?
| JiaYou |
Scott, are you okay? You recommended just one class to the guy!!! Just kidding, Freebooter is a good call in this situation: the Witch won't really benefit but the Rogue will definitely appreciate the extra accuracy and damage.
The ONLY problem with the advice you gave is that, unless it's been errata-ed, split-blade swords require Dex 15 to use properly. Now, I would DEFINITELY recommend to the OP that he swap his Wis and Dex and go with Dual Talent Human to bump his Dex to 15. Your Will saves take a dive but you'll be at +2 to AC and reflex saves and have much better better ranged options if it comes up...a Gnome Rogue and a Witch aren't great ranged fighters. So I might make two different suggestions...and just be aware that mine take into account the lack of bonus feat at level 1.
The Tank
1 Split Blade Proficiency (gives you +2.5 average damage over a longsword)
R2 Two Weapon Fighting
R3 Improved Shield Bash
Siegfried from Soul Calibur
R1 Power Attack
R2 Shield of Swings
R3 Cleave or Weapon Focus Greatsword
(This gives you MORE AC than the Tank potentially and possibly equal or higher damage)
Modified Scott(2) Suggestion
R1 Split Blade Proficiency
R2 Two Weapon Fighting
R3 Weapon Focus Split Blade
I don't like Shield Slam because you arguably need to help the Rogue set up sneak attacks, and moving the enemies around with bull rushes might be disadvantageous much of the time. I actually like Scott's idea of just going with armor spikes since it avoids you even having to take Improved Shield Bash.
| Cavall |
Yeah your stats are way too low to TWF and use a split blade. Even at full BAB.
I will say a freebooter ranger makes an excellent sword and board as they can offset twf penalties with their targeting. And if the witch picks up the Hair hex, even that character benefits from the bonuses to hit and damage.
| Scott Wilhelm |
Scott, are you okay? You recommended just one class to the guy!!! Just kidding,
I guess I was able to resist the temptation for 3 levels.
The idea behind my advice was based on a character build of mine that did indeed multiclass a lot with levels in Fighter, Ranger, Inquisitor, and a dip in Living Monolith, and it was a Half Elf, not a Human, so took EWP as an Alternate Racial Trait and also took Arcane Training to use Wizard and Sorcerer wands.
Freebooter is a good call in this situation: the Witch won't really benefit but the Rogue will definitely appreciate the extra accuracy and damage.
I like dipping 1-3 levels in Ranger, anyway, and the OP said Ranger: I like Lead Blades. I like Freebooter's Bane. I like the Endurance Feat, and there's a Bonus Feat.
The Witch might benefit: it depends on the Witch. If it's a White Haired Witch, or a Witch that likes making Ranged Touch Attacks, the Witch will benefit.
The ONLY problem with the advice you gave is that, unless it's been errata-ed, split-blade swords require Dex 15 to use properly.
TTTT, I wasn't even thinking about that. With that in mind, it might be better for the OP to make some other choice like Bastard Sword.
I like Attacks of Opportunity, myself, so I tend to have high Dex Martial Characters anyway. With those Ranks in Inquisitor the OP has not approved, I would take Broken Wing Gambit.
He could swap his Dex and Con, making them 13 and 11 respectively, then put his +2 in Dex. So, if he keeps his Strength 13 and makes his Dex 15 to use his SBS, he does a Base 2d6 +2 = 9, buffable with the Wand of Lead Blades to 3d6+2=12.5. If he makes his Strength 16 and uses a Bastard Sword, he does 1d0+3=8.5, buffable to 2d8+3==12, making the Split Blade Sword slightly better in Damage/Hit and gives the OP a bonus to AC and Reflex Saves.
Now, I would DEFINITELY recommend to the OP that he swap his Wis and Dex and go with Dual Talent Human to bump his Dex to 15. Your Will saves take a dive but you'll be at +2 to AC and reflex saves
Hmm, I'd hate to let his Will Saves take a Dive: Will is the most important Save to have. I'd rather switch his Con and Dex to give him at least a little something. Rangers already have good Fort and Dex Saves.
and have much better better ranged options if it comes up...a Gnome Rogue and a Witch aren't great ranged fighters. So I might make two different suggestions...and just be aware that mine take into account the lack of bonus feat at level 1.
The Rogue and Witch might be good Ranged fighters. If they are, then he might consider not tanking and be a good Ranged fighter himself with like an Orc Hornbow and a Wand of Gravity Bow instead of a Split Blade Sword and a Wand of Lead Blades. Then all 3 will be ranged combatants, splitting and harassing every opponent, withering them away in a hail of arrows, bullets and energy beams as their enemies chase after them as helplessly as a terrier chasing a sparrow.
But if neither are, as you think, then the OP's party needs a tank.
| Scott Wilhelm |
Modified Scott(2) Suggestion
R1 Split Blade Proficiency
R2 Two Weapon Fighting
R3 Weapon Focus Split BladeThis one seems interesting
I am a bit confused with the numbers though. Is it -2 to both the Split Blade and the Shield?
Yes, when you are 2 Weapon Fighting, have the 2 Weapon Fighting Feat, and your off-hand weapon is Light, then both attacks take a -2 to hit.
But with the build you are quoting, that character does not Shield Bash. That character uses a Heavy Shield and 2 Weapon Fights with the Split Blade Sword with Armor Spikes as the off-hand weapon.
| Scott Wilhelm |
Yeah your stats are way too low to TWF and use a split blade. Even at full BAB.
I will say a freebooter ranger makes an excellent sword and board as they can offset twf penalties with their targeting. And if the witch picks up the Hair hex, even that character benefits from the bonuses to hit and damage.
Actually, I think the OP can just about do it. 2 Weapon Fighting requires a Dex of 15. Split Blade Sword requires a Dex of 15. And the ability to do both works out to be a Damage Bonus that normally you'd use Strength for.
| Scott Wilhelm |
I don't like Shield Slam because you arguably need to help the Rogue set up sneak attacks, and moving the enemies around with bull rushes might be disadvantageous much of the time.
The beauty of Shield Slam is that it works when you are Flanking. If the OP Slams his opponent into his Ally, then their victim falls prone. If the campaign would go on long enough, the OP would get Great Bull Rush, granting an Attack of Opportunity to his Flanking Buddy whenever he Slammed him.
That would then have been fed by Inquisitor, who would use Solo Tactics to take Paired Opportunist, so he would get an AoO, too. Then his Attack of Opportunity would be ANOTHER SHIELD SLAM, triggering more Attacks of Opportunity, looping for as long as everybody's Combat Reflexes lasts.
But that can't happen before level 6, and we don't even know the OP's campaign will last that long.