
sherlock1701 |
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This is a phrase that I've seen in basically every spell that creates something temporarily, or temporarily changes the form of something (e.g. the Precious Metals focus spell).
I understand the rationale behind it (even though I disagree with it - players should absolutely be able to scam NPCs, with all the negative and positive consequences that entails), but that's beside the point.
How can people tell that the effect is magical and temporary, especially the latter? Sure, maybe the item is surrounded by swirling magical energies, making it obvious that magic is at play somehow. But what about the effect makes it obvious to Joe Barbarian, who has never seen a spell like this in his life, that the effect is temporary?
This isn't explained anywhere, and I can't really see any way to justify it short of every such affected item emitting a holographic image of "this item reverts to it's natural form in:" and a countdown, or some similar effect. Either that, or every single citizen of every single culture, regardless of how remote, has been so intensely educated from birth in identifying every spell that could be used for fraud, that they can instantly identify such effects without an Identify check.
If this required a Perception or Arcana/Religion/etc check against spell DC, it would make sense, but the fact that any person can immediately identify the effect as temporary with a casual glance is difficult to justify.

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If everything with glowing blue sparkles is temporary, then in a world with common magic, everyone knows that, making it obvious.
Actually, this enables some scams if you have illusion magic. Use illusions to duplicate the 'magical and temporary' special effect (whatever it is) and you can trick people into thinking things of worth are worthless. That's good for various sorts of scam...

sherlock1701 |

If everything with glowing blue sparkles is temporary, then in a world with common magic, everyone knows that, making it obvious.
It still has weird interactions and edge scenarios that don't make sense.
For example, you teleport to a planet that has no spellcasters, and the first magic effect you ever show off to the inhabitants is such an item. They instantly understand that the item is worthless and temporary, even though they have never seen magic before. As written, this is how the spells work.
Actually, this enables some scams if you have illusion magic. Use illusions to duplicate the 'magical and temporary' special effect (whatever it is) and you can trick people into thinking things of worth are worthless. That's good for various sorts of scam...
I like this use, though it does raise another question. If I can easily fake the temporary item appearance, why would anyone ever question my claim that the item is fake? They would have no reason to. Which leads back to it not being obvious that something is temporary and magical, because you have no reason to trust your senses.
Which takes us back to it making more sense to call for a perception/arcana/etc. check. Otherwise, them trying to disbelieve your illusion would absolutely be metagaming.
It also seems like a shame you can't use such effects to pass yourself off as wealthier than you really are.

sherlock1701 |

It reminds me of the caveats on creation spells in PF1. "Yes this iron is usable for all purposes, yes it can be used to create weapons, yes you have more than you will ever need, yes it is instantaneous and cannot be dispelled, NO YOU CAN'T SELL IT NO ONE WANTS IT IT'S TERRIBLE."
Actually, if you look at the text for minor/major creation for PF1, there's no such restriction. The only limitation is that the created item can't be used as a spell component (which at least has some justification, blah blah interacting magical fields).

MadMars |

MadMars wrote:It reminds me of the caveats on creation spells in PF1. "Yes this iron is usable for all purposes, yes it can be used to create weapons, yes you have more than you will ever need, yes it is instantaneous and cannot be dispelled, NO YOU CAN'T SELL IT NO ONE WANTS IT IT'S TERRIBLE."Actually, if you look at the text for minor/major creation for PF1, there's no such restriction. The only limitation is that the created item can't be used as a spell component (which at least has some justification, blah blah interacting magical fields).
Quite a few of them did, actually, and I would be happy to dig up some if you like. I remember seeing the phrase more than a few times playing arcane casters. Granted, in the specific case of minor/major creation you are right.