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So, how do you feel about the Regain Focus rules?
I refer to the fact that you can only regenerate a single Focus Point at a time (before being forced to spend another one). So even if you get multipe Focus Spells and up to 3 max Focus Points, you can never regain more than one during the day. Only a full rest will get you back up to maximum.
The only way to circumvent this is spending two pretty high level class feats (level 10 or 12 for 2 Focus Regain, level 18 for 3).
Bards and Champions don't even get the 3 focus feat, for whatever reason. I feel both could be built to be pretty reliant on their Focus spells which makes the whole thing feel odd. Wizards don't get a 3 focus feat either, but they can't even have 3 focus points without multiclassing. Would still be nice to have the option to regain 3. Clerics would need to spend 4 feats to get to 3 focus (and then another 2 to actually being able to regain them). Those seem like a pretty heavy investment.
I personally think it's quite a bit too limiting. It somewhat invalidates the extra focus a leaf/storm druid gets and limits monks to a single supernatural deed per combat. I also fear that the upcoming Witch (and possibly the Oracle) will rely heavily on Focus Powers (i.e. Hexes) but might run out sooner rather than later each day.
I think when you can have 2 Focus, you should be able to regain 2 focus. At the very least I'd like to make those focus regain feats available quite a bit earlier. Maybe like level 6 for the 2 focus and level 10 or 12 for the 3 focus version. Focus spells always cost you class feats, which are arguably yor most important "resource" when it comes to character building, so I'd like to actually use them with some frequency if I want to build a character around them.
Any possible change to these feat/mechanics would of course need to be balanced. Maybe giving the spammable focus spells (like the Sorcerer's Drain Life) the Flourish trait or something like that.
Thoughts?
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Can agree that, conceptually, being limited to one round per combat with additional points essentially being daily things you can go nova with, is a little disappointing.
My guess is that Paizo was worried that spellcasters who spent three rounds on focus spells and then half an hour to regenerate them all would have too much longevity and with certain focus spells I can definitely see that.
It's definitely sort of a drag though for classes like monk who effectively only get one round of supernatural stuff per combat, or blasters who like the auto-scaling on focus spells as a primary source of damage.
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I like it. They wanted them as once per encounter powers with options to invest to make them both more flexible (surge capacity, more than one power to choose) and more plentiful (the extra recovery feats). If you want free spells you've got cantrips, and if you want serious spells you've got your slots.
I was also confused/not immediately understanding that pool is not infinitely refreshable up to full, but I actually very much like that dynamic... As Xenocrat says, baseline is really 1/encounter BUT extra points allow surging when needed, just not automatic spam everytime. And additional refresh methods allow refreshing to allow further surges. Of course, at higher levels you can refresh more so 2 or 3 focus points/encounter can become norm. It's really a nice system.
Why cap the pool at 3? Because if it was 10, then you could do the same surge 5 encounters/ day.
I mean, Focus spells are often 1 action, yet are often quite good, so you could be casting 3 top tier spells/round.
I can understand why the confusion, when people expect point pool to work like vanilla ammo magazine, but it's deeper dynamic than that.
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Comparing PF2 Focus to Starfinder, the best comparison is the abilities that can be used 'once until you rest and spend a resolve point to regain stamina'.
So Starfinder resolve point abilities can only be used once without a 10 minute rest, but if you have multiple of them, you can use all of them once between rests. And then you get all of the abilities back and can use them each once again before having to rest again.
I'm not sure which system is better. PF2 focus is more flexible because you could use all of your focus points to use the same ability between resting. But Starfinder resolve abilities recharge more from a rest. But Starfinder resolve abilities can only be recharged as many times as you have resolve points. I don't think there is a maximum number of times that you can refocus - just that you have to spend a point before regaining more.
However, I know for certain that PF2 focus points are a lot easier to track rather than having to remember whether you have used a particular ability since the last time you rested.
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It's in the requirement of the Refocus action. See https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=276.
Requirements You have a focus pool, and you have spent at least 1 Focus Point since you last regained any Focus Points.
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Yeah I am happy as is, it gives the option for breaking out more than one power an encounter while also limiting it fairly elegantly.
It is limiting, but it is meant to be limiting and that is fine.
Taking a closer look at the Leaf and Storm druid (which get 2 focus points at level 1 despite having only one focus spell) I can kind of see what they were going for.
The non-regainable focus points are basically extra spell slots. Leaf and Storm are the caster orders of the druid but since a level 1 druid only has 2 spell slots at level 1, they'd be pretty bad as pure casters. The extra spell point allows them to cast one more thing per day with the option of spending feats later to make those "extra spell slots" available for each combat.
I'd still prefer the focus regain feats to be slightly lower level but I think the basic idea should work just fine.
Unfortunately, the second focus point for the leaf druid is nearly pointless due to how goodberry works but that's another topic.
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If you have 3 Focus Points, you can still use 1 and the Refocus to go back up to 3.
It's only when you use 2 or 3 Focus Points without refocussing that your maximum goes down (without the refocus feats). That's actually quite spam-balancing and okay with me.
When I started reading this thread I thought you could never Refocus as long as you had a point remaining...
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I think it's very well balanced for caster classes and Champions but Monks get the shortest end of the stick. You can never be a real ki based Monk because of everything running off this small pool so you're relegated to once an encounter tricks. I kind of feel like some Ki abilities should've become Cantrips. A two action Ki Strike would've been great.
I refer to the fact that you can only regenerate a single Focus Point at a time (before being forced to spend another one). So even if you get multipe Focus Spells and up to 3 max Focus Points, you can never regain more than one during the day. Only a full rest will get you back up to maximum.
Well, there are other ways to regain focus other than refocus. For instance, a familiar can regain your focus and it doesn't have the same wording so "only full rest" isn't quite right.
Well, there are other ways to regain focus other than refocus. For instance, a familiar can regain your focus and it doesn't have the same wording so "only full rest" isn't quite right.
Which also costs you a feat. ;)
I was mostly concerned with the general rules on regaining focus via refocusing during the day.
But yes, there are a few more fears that allow you to regain a focus point, but as far as I know all of them are also 1/day deals. I think a gnome wizard can get up to 3 of those but that's a rather heavy investment.
I generally like the system.
My only gripe is that the "regain 2/3" feats come online just a tad too late than what I'd wanted.
If they were at like 8/14 or even 10/16 it'd be much easier to focus more on focus abilities (Jeez that's an annoying name).
12/18 seems a bit too late.
This, though I could also go with perhaps a limited x/day recovery, where x is the pool size, likely with similar strictures to something like the wizard's Linked Focus, to prevent spamming. To me, just 1-2 more focus spells per day due to focus pool size seems a bit underwhelming, given that you're usually getting those from picking up another focus spell. If the average 4 encounters per adventuring day (considering only encounter usages, since otherwise they're basically just cantrips with a 10-minute casting time), you go 4->5->6 in usage per day, as pool size increases, and I think something closer to 4->6->8 would feel more freeing, since you'd feel like you're actually able to make more use of your focus powers if you decide to devote further feats to them.
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...am I the only one who saw the refocusing rules and thought “You can *regain* some of your focus now? That’s amazing!”
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...am I the only one who saw the refocusing rules and thought “You can *regain* some of your focus now? That’s amazing!”
Well, it's been known for quite some time from Oblivion Oath and other sources. So many of us here simply knew it already.
The basic fact itself IS amazing, though!
Which also costs you a feat. ;)
Arcane Thesis [Improved Familiar Attunement] nets you it as a bonus feat and the familiar gets extra abilities.
While there are only a few ways to get focus back and they are 1/day, it can allow for a second nova using multiple focus in another battle.
I think it's very well balanced for caster classes and Champions but Monks get the shortest end of the stick. You can never be a real ki based Monk because of everything running off this small pool so you're relegated to once an encounter tricks. I kind of feel like some Ki abilities should've become Cantrips. A two action Ki Strike would've been great.
Or focus abilities that cost 0 focus points, and can be used so long as you have focus points remaining. This retains the same idea but is closer to the flavour. Otherwise it’s just monks with spells - which is a bit weird (unless you are going for a multi class)