
Chromantic Durgon <3 |

What do you guys think of them?
Are there any that stand out as too strong/weak?
Do you not think they’re pointless and unattainable or fun to fantasise about?
Anyone got the chance to use any of them yet?
I have to say some of them seem potentially fun on some builds.
I particularly like the Sorc (not for all bloodlines but some of their capstones are hot garbage) and the Spiritualist one seems great. Opens up a lot of builds and things.
What do you guys think? I’ve not seen much chatter about them, so I must assume not much.

Temperans |
I think a good chunk of people are moving over to PF2e to talk much about these new things, doesnt help they are lv 20 things.
I find the alt vigilante capstone kind of cool. Not only do you get 2 more talents, but it can even be from any archetype if the GM allows.
The magus alt capstone is more of a lateral move, trading benefits for spells for a better/cheaper weapon (aka a lot more gold for anything else).
Clerics and Wizards got a straight up buff (effectively passive lesser commune with deity and lots of extra spells).
*************
Overall, I think that it's a great mechanic that came far too late to make an impression. The high level nature of them makes it hard for regular players to reach, so most may even find then pointless.
I would love to try them, but finding a game (much less a lv 20 one) is too much trouble for me.

Ryan Freire |

In pure value the +8 to an ability score (or split to more than one if you really want) looks likely the best. The sorc. extra bloodline looks fun but not as good. Analyzing all of them for a game I will never ever play seems like too much trouble though.
WM handbook makes the +2 to weapon training kind of attractive as well.
There's a fair amount of stuff you can do with that.

Pan, definitely not a Kitsune |

Capstones are generally not my focus when thinking about a character, even when theorycrafting.
Besides, any multiclassing locks you out of them. Even if you don't, any archetype that changes the capstone will, again, lock you out.
And even when playing a straight class without an capstone-replacing archetype, you have to reach level 20, by which the game mechanics have become wonky anyway, so an in-depth analysis doesn't mean much any more, and "choose what looks fun" is easy enough (if you ever get to that point).

blahpers |

Haven't looked at them all, but here are my gut reactions skimming through d20pfsrd:
0. Untyped +8 to a score is pretty sweet no matter who you are.
1. The fighter one is, ah, underwhelming compared to both the default capstone and the universal +8-to-a-score capstone.
2. The rogue one is kind of silly since at that point the rogue already has ridiculous skill modifiers for the occasions in which skills still matter.
3. The bard one isn't terrible.
4. Wizard would get bonus spells from a +8 to Intelligence so this seems silly.
5. The cleric one, free though it is, almost enrages me. Another domain for free is fine, but every cleric should have an instinctive idea of whether their deity would approve of events that matter.
6. Paladin one might be nice for skirmishes with lots of NPC/companion allies, but it's hard to compete with holy champion.
7. I actually like the ranger one and would probably take it.
8. The barbarian one is mediocre and doesn't live up to the whole "can't kill you" selling point. Maybe if one took Invulnerable Rager. Though at 20th level you probably already have immunity to at least some elements already, and if not a party caster can get it for you wholesale.
9. The monk one is almost certainly better than the default.
10. The druid one makes more sense for an NPC than a PC.
11. Most sorcerers would be pretty disappointed to trade away their capstone power for another bloodline, but if you're starting at 20 rather than organically playing your way up then there are probably some interesting combos there.
12. Oracle is sorta like sorcerer, but there are some kinda dead final revelations and a lot of interesting regular revelations any oracle might like to have compared to the situation with bloodlines. YMMV, though, and I'm only skimming for now so I could be talking out of my tail.
13. Gunslinger: Oof. The damage boost might make that a hard choice. The very best deeds usually have "can't reduce this grit use" attached, and there's still Signature Deed for the ones that allow it. Gonna go with "character-dependent".
14. The cavalier option is pretty sweet, especially if you spend a lot of time unmounted/unable to charge or are in the skirmishy-type game mentioned above.
Will look over the others later.

Chromantic Durgon <3 |
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Oooo this is exciting :)
0: I kinda find this one annoying because its so strong its better than most of the tailored to class options. Which kinda enrages me!
1: Agree
2: This one just feels terrible, but then I don't know what I'd want to do with the rogue.
3: I feel like this one just depends on the kind of bard you want to be. It feels weirdly close to something a mesmerist would do though.
4: Agreed
5: I kinda find this one boring to be honest, I kind of find clerics boring though. I feel like something to do with making the channel more fun would be better.
6: I agree this is very NPC vibe, I also feel like the +8 bonus is mechanically very strong.
7: I feel like the one is good if your favoured enemy features heavily in a game you're playing. But the +8 again would be a safer bet for consistency (just to re-iterate, I hate that +8)
8: This feels, just worse than mighty rage.
9: I actually felt conflicted about this one to be honest, especially for the unchained monk. I find it hard to pick.
11: Oh I think this is very dependant from Sorc to Sorc. I have a Verdant Sorc and a especially a vestige sorc who could probably find some more use in a secondary bloodline. Some bloodlines have very meh capstones.
In fact I was thinking of taking an Astral sideline for the Vestige Sorc, who is a Shabti, because I think it would fit his combined lore. For this one in particular I think a lot of whether or not I would take it is if it would make sense to the asthetic of the character.
I also have a draconic sorc, who wouldn't want to give up his cap.
Also if you're making a save or suck sorc (enchantment/illusion/transmutation) tell me why you're not taking that g$$ d!*n +8.
12: I agree
13: I feel like I don't know s**+ about the gunslinger so I can't comment haha. Does seem generically good, but is it better than a +8 to dex? cause thats a + to hit as well...
14: This gives me a similar vibe to the paladin one. Its true its good for the unmounted thing for in caves. But its for that reason I never really consider playing a medium race Cavalier, but thats just me.

pad300 |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Many rules questions... I'm going to repeat myself from here :
https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sgn6?Hodgepodge-from-the-Grand-Lo dge
What's the definition of a capstone feature? For example, presumably for sorcerers it's the 20th level bloodline power. But it can't be any class feature at 20th level - wizards get a bonus feat at 20th, but are called out as not having one. So witches getting another hex at 20th are without a capstone (Grand Hex is at 18)? What about classes that get 2 abilities at 20th. Eg. occultist gets Implement Mastery and Outside Contact 4.
Another big question, how about a sorcerer and robes of arcane heritage - can he claim his full bloodline development as of lvl 16 and change out his capstone? Can a 20th level sorcerer pick up an alternate capstone - "Deep Magics" - and yet claim his full bloodline development from the robe?

Pan, definitely not a Kitsune |