Engineering/Mysticism skills:
Provisional Repair mechanic trick:
If you can complete the repair within the Provisional Repair duration (such as with the Quick Repair ability, for example) can you fix a broken item for free?
'to suppress the penalties from the broken condition'.
The item is still broken when you try to repair it with engineering. It simply doesn't have the penalties from being broken.
So, no, you still need to spend the money.
Isn't it counting as broken a penalty? And therefore suppressed?'to suppress the penalties from the broken condition'.
The item is still broken when you try to repair it with engineering. It simply doesn't have the penalties from being broken.
So, no, you still need to spend the money.
I don't see it as such, no. The 'penalties from being broken' are specifically the penalties listed under the broken condition
(Item Only) Weapon: attack and damage rolls take a –2 penalty and can’t deal extra effects on a critical hit; armor: AC bonuses are halved and the armor check penalty is doubled; vehicle: –2 penalty to AC, collision DC, and Piloting modifier, and it halves its full speed and MPH; tool or tech that provides bonuses: bonuses are halved.
These penalties are suppressed for the duration of Provisional Repair. None of them reference the cost for doing repairs on the item.
And the broken condition has not been removed. So it must still be paid for when doing repairs.
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Isn't it counting as broken a penalty? And therefore suppressed?'to suppress the penalties from the broken condition'.
The item is still broken when you try to repair it with engineering. It simply doesn't have the penalties from being broken.
So, no, you still need to spend the money.
I don't see it as such, no. The 'penalties from being broken' are specifically the penalties listed under the broken condition
(Item Only) Weapon: attack and damage rolls take a –2 penalty and can’t deal extra effects on a critical hit; armor: AC bonuses are halved and the armor check penalty is doubled; vehicle: –2 penalty to AC, collision DC, and Piloting modifier, and it halves its full speed and MPH; tool or tech that provides bonuses: bonuses are halved.These penalties are suppressed for the duration of Provisional Repair. None of them reference the cost for doing repairs on the item.
And the broken condition has not been removed. So it must still be paid for when doing repairs.
Thanks for posting this. Rereading the core rulebook I found something fairly weird. Penalties are not defined as the inverse of a bonus. You can have a bonus non numerical effect like a bonus feat but penalties have this as a definition.
Various effects can cause you to take penalties to ability scores, Armor Class, die rolls, movement, or other statistics. Unlike bonuses, penalties do not have types. However, multiple applications of the same penalty generally don’t stack—only the highest penalty applies.
So as weird as it seems penalties are not the inverse of bonuses.
I don't see it as such, no. The 'penalties from being broken' are specifically the penalties listed under the broken condition
(Item Only) Weapon: attack and damage rolls take a –2 penalty and can’t deal extra effects on a critical hit; armor: AC bonuses are halved and the armor check penalty is doubled; vehicle: –2 penalty to AC, collision DC, and Piloting modifier, and it halves its full speed and MPH; tool or tech that provides bonuses: bonuses are halved.
Yeah, but are the penalties just the -2, or is it all of the above? If it's the latter, than why couldn't the other ill effects be considered penalties of the broken condition as well?
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Yeah, but are the penalties just the -2, or is it all of the above? If it's the latter, than why couldn't the other ill effects be considered penalties of the broken condition as well?I don't see it as such, no. The 'penalties from being broken' are specifically the penalties listed under the broken condition
(Item Only) Weapon: attack and damage rolls take a –2 penalty and can’t deal extra effects on a critical hit; armor: AC bonuses are halved and the armor check penalty is doubled; vehicle: –2 penalty to AC, collision DC, and Piloting modifier, and it halves its full speed and MPH; tool or tech that provides bonuses: bonuses are halved.
Technically penalties are just the negative modifiers to the roll (Bonuses and Penalties, Pg 266 CRB).
I'm not sure whether the halved bonuses and the like disappear. I would treat the ability as 'ignore everything under the broken condition, it's still has the broken condition', but RAW it appears to only remove the -2's and such.
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Yeah, but are the penalties just the -2, or is it all of the above? If it's the latter, than why couldn't the other ill effects be considered penalties of the broken condition as well?I don't see it as such, no. The 'penalties from being broken' are specifically the penalties listed under the broken condition
(Item Only) Weapon: attack and damage rolls take a –2 penalty and can’t deal extra effects on a critical hit; armor: AC bonuses are halved and the armor check penalty is doubled; vehicle: –2 penalty to AC, collision DC, and Piloting modifier, and it halves its full speed and MPH; tool or tech that provides bonuses: bonuses are halved.
This is what I was saying. You can have a bonus feat and bonus nonnumerical things but penalties are only numerical elements. They are not just the inverse of bonuses which is a bit wonky.
Gotta love that English language right?
Think of it like this: broken is a condition that applies penalties, it is not itself a penalty. A bonus feat is not a 'bonus' it is a bonus feat - one term, two words.
I believe RAI provisional repair removes all of this:
Weapon: attack and damage rolls take a –2 penalty and can’t deal extra effects on a critical hit; armor: AC bonuses are halved and the armor check penalty is doubled; vehicle: –2 penalty to AC, collision DC, and Piloting modifier, and it halves its full speed and MPH; tool or tech that provides bonuses: bonuses are halved.
But RAW, it might only remove this:
Weapon: attack and damage rolls take a –2 penalty, armor: AC bonuses are halved and the armor check penalty is doubled; vehicle: –2 penalty to AC, collision DC, and Piloting modifier, and it halves its full speed and MPH; tool or tech that provides bonuses: bonuses are halved.
Or even as little as this:
Weapon: attack and damage rolls take a –2 penalty, vehicle: –2 penalty to AC, collision DC, and Piloting modifier
In my opinion, the first option is most correct. The item is still broken, but none of that first quote applies.
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spend the UPBs on the uplifted gorilla glue and quit being a cheapskate.
spend the UPBs on the uplifted gorilla glue and quit being a cheapskate.
Cheapskate? That doesn't make any sense to me.
Even if this does work, it takes a lot of character resources and opportunity costs to pull off properly. As a result, it's arguably more expensive than the credits you'll end up saving.
I mean, you can already remove the broken condition with a single casting of Mending, so it's not like you can't already get rid of it without that cost...
As an added plus, mechanics make decent candidates for the technomantic dabbler feat anyway.
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Yeah. I tend to consider the 'penalties' to be all of the detriments of a particular condition or status. The numeric penalties are the various negative numbers that are applied to rolls. But things like the inability of a broken weapon to deal critical hit effects are also a 'penalty' of the item having the broken condition.
So when Provisional Repair removes the penalties of the broken condition it would remove the negative effects of that condition listed in the condition rules text (which happens to be all of them). It doesn't remove the condition itself. And the cost for repairs is not a condition of being broken. It is a rule in the rules for repairing an item and is based entirely on the item having the condition.
But yes, I can see where the english language is being a bit troublesome. If the added cost of repairs is a penalty applied by having the broken condition, then Provisional Repairs should remove that penalty as well. I am considering it to not be a penalty of the condition only because it is not listed in the condition's rules box.