How deadly is RoW?


Reign of Winter


Hi there,

We re currently running RoW with a three player group and we have a lot of troubles with the AP.
We are still in the first book and already had two TPK. The first was in the winter dome with the Ice elemental and the second at the last encounter on the tower.

Our first party was sub-optimal, but not total worthless (Witch, Fighter, Inquisitor(Tactician)) the second was much more optimized (UC Summoner, Druid, Arcanist) but neitherless we didn't made it.

The first TPK was simply a bunch of unlucky rolls, but the second was a WTF moment.

First our Summoner was blinded by a swarm of crows (with a DC 20 Heal to "fix it") then the BBEG also deafen him, so he was out of combat (the Eidolon already died) at the raven encounter.

I really wonder because of the damage output, Spells and DCs we encounter and wonder if the AP is really this hard or if we simply miss(ed) something.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

It is considered one of the harder APs. It is particularly hard in the early books if the DM goes hard with the weather effects.

Some of the encounters can be whirlwinds of carnage (for me it was the lodge). As I understand it becomes easier to face (like most APs) as the campaign goes on.

I made the mistake of taking the player's guide advice in the one game I played in and made a frost focused druid. It really helps if someone in the party has consistent fire damage on tap.

Shadow Lodge

The first book is definitely the hardest of the bunch.


The fire damage dealing suggestion given above is good.

Also, the APs are calibrated for a party of four characters (15-point build), though not necessarily super-optimised and -savvy characters.

You might just need a fourth character, just to spread around the pain a bit more evenly. Has your group considered something like an easy-to-run Fighter or switch-hitting Ranger as a fourth PC? The character sheet can be passed around to whoever is least stressed at the moment, and the GM can take care of the levelling. Just remember to give the meatshield a fair share of the loot.

One of the Rise of the Runelords campaigns that I'm currently running has only three players, so I added a Fighter which is normally run by one of the players in addition to that player's own character. The Fighter took at two levels of Oracle (Metal) at character levels 5 and 6 for buffing his melee weapons with Lead Blades, improving his Will saves, and the ability to cast CLW and use Cleric spell-list wands/staves as needed. He also uses the Vital Strike feat chain (even though certain optimisers on-line will insist that it's a trap). He has the most HP in the party, but he also goes through them - which is his job! :)


We were aware of the missing forth PC, thats why we use roll-dice for attribute creation and also had two pet-class. We thought this would made up for it, but unfortunately not. :(

The "off-player PC" is also something we considered, but so far none of us is really used to it to run two characters.
But I will suggest this to the DM.

Today is our next session, we came up with new characters and I think this time the boss will be steamroled, since we are all well rested (and I doubt that our DM "refill" the tower with encounters (she is a little bit inexperienced and not so flexible).

So far we are now:
Skald - melee build
Alchemist - bomber
Cleric - switch hitter

So let's see how this is going. :)


The GM can always run a GMPC. They could go with an Uncanny Rogue with the Rogue Ability of auto-trap detection (thus not having to worry about metagaming about traps).

Alternatively, the GM can use the Mythic Rules for your group. If you have one Mythic Tier, that will massively increase your survivability while helping lessen the lack of a fourth player (action economy is your friend and being able to occasionally use a Swift Action for an extra attack or the like does help). And staying at 1 Mythic Tier helps prevent the overpowered nature of Mythic from coming out (1 Tier isn't tremendously overpowered, but once you're in the 2nd or 3rd Tier you start see the rails coming off of things).

If you don't want to go with Mythic, then the GM could give each player three Hero Points for every game session - Hero Points actually are at the core of the Mythic rules when you get down to it, seeing they can be used for extra actions, boosting die rolls, or the like.

Amusingly enough I've the opposite problem - my group is now four players, the GMPC Bard (support role), and Rokhar tagging along leading them to the Winter Portal (though fortunately all his zombies are now re-dead so he's not too useful for the group these days). They're getting ready to assault the Winter Portal camp itself with our next game so... finger's crossed on killing Rokhar! ;)

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