Forsaker (Antimagic PrC)


Homebrew and House Rules


A work in progress. Feedback welcome.

Foreword:
The concept that I loved about the deeply flawed original 3.0 Forsaker PrC was that it tried to facilitate a non-gimped antimagic character. That's what this class aims to do. It isn't a "magekiller" in the Test of Spite, PvP sense. Even so, this forced me to tackle a few unique design challenges.

Spellcasting and magic items are two of the most complex player-facing systems in Pathfinder. The sheer number of options available means that they can be optimized to wildly varying degrees. The power difference between two fighters, one who spent her entire budget on a +5 shield and another who scoured sourcebooks for a dozen well-picked cheaper items, can be staggering.

The Forsaker class, by its concept, doesn't use either of these systems. As an inadvertent result, the gap between a well-built Forsaker and a poorly-built one is much narrower than with other classes; it has a high optimization floor and a low optimization ceiling. When designing the class, I had to choose where in the spectrum of optimization to place its narrow power band. My goal was for the Forsaker to function as part of a tier 3 character build in a modestly-optimized party, where players make intelligent mechanical decisions (e.g. Gloves of Dueling on a Fighter) but don't entirely crush the CL system.

To put it simply: if your party includes optimized full-casters, the Forsaker is not going to compare. If your party contains Paizo-designed premade martials, the Forsaker is not likely to be a healthy choice for your table either. It will also experience a substantial power boost relative to the rest of the party if you hand out far less loot than the WBL system assumes (and don't use Automatic Bonus Progression by default), or if other PCs aren't receiving buffs or heals either from spellcasters or items.

Lastly, while not all Forsakers need to be opposed to advanced technology, DMs should be aware that giving Forsakers plentiful access to technological items may also substantially increase the class's power beyond what was intended.

Forsaker
[Profile to-be-written]

Role: Forsakers can potentially fill a wide variety of martial or skill-based roles in a party, and are strongly influenced by their choice of background class. They are largely self-sufficient, freeing up limited resources for other party members.

Alignment: Forsakers can be of any alignment, though their strong convictions mean they are rarely true neutral.

Hit Die: d12 (but see Background Class).

Requirements:
To qualify to become a Forsaker, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

Special: Base Attack Bonus +5, OR Knowledge (Arcana) 5 ranks.
Must not use or directly benefit from spells, spell-like abilities, or magic items.

A Forsaker who uses or is willingly affected by a magic item loses access to their class features for a number of days equal to half the item's CL (minimum 1), as their conviction is compromised. A Forsaker who casts or is willingly subject to a spell or spell-like ability (i.e. voluntarily forfeits their save) loses access to their class features for a number of days equal to its spell level (minimum 1). Their conviction does not begin to recover until they no longer benefit from magic.

Base class levels after 5th may be retrained into Forsaker levels. This is an exception to the general rule that base class levels cannot be retrained into prestige class levels.

When this class refers to "spells", it means spells, spell-like abilities, psionic powers, and the activated powers of magic items and artifacts.

Class Skills
The Forsaker's class skills are Spellcraft, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Religion), and Knowledge (Planes).

Skill Ranks At Each Level: 8 + Int modifier (but see Background Class).

[Table: Forsaker goes here, when I get around to it. Full BAB, good Will and Fort.]

Class Features
All Forsaker class features are Extraordinary unless noted otherwise.

Automatic Bonus Progression
After forswearing the use of magic items, the Forsaker uses the Automatic Bonus Progression optional system and gains bonuses from it as if she were 2 levels higher than her actual character level if she didn't already do so.

Keen Senses
At 1st level the Forsaker's inner purity allows her to sense magic in the world, like an astronomer seeking out dark places from which to see the stars. She can concentrate for one to three rounds to perceive magical auras as per the effect of Detect Magic. At 3rd level, she gains all benefits of Detect Magic with only one round of study.

Purifying Sleep
At 1st level, natural vitality floods the Forsaker's body, helping her to shrug off afflictions. She gains fast healing 1, and when she rests for at least 8 hours she recovers from all ability damage, ability drain, negative levels, and diseases or curses. This also ends any spells currently affecting her, whether or not their duration is permanent.

Forsaker Insights
The Forsaker gains an insight at 1st level, and one additional insight at 4th, 7th, and 10th level. Unless explicitly noted otherwise, an insight cannot be taken more than once. These insights can be changed out after resting for eight hours by shifting her mental focus.

Dedicated Class
As a group defined by what they are not, Forsakers naturally show great variety in what they are. At 2nd level, the Forsaker chooses any base class to be her dedicated class. Every Forsaker level where she does not gain an insight also counts as a level in her dedicated class for the purposes of class features and meeting prerequisites. She uses her dedicated class's hit die, skills per level, and BAB progression for those Forsaker levels. This feature is not lost if the Forsaker violates her code of conduct.

Boons of Purity
The Forsaker gains a boon at 2nd level, and one additional boon at 3rd, 5th, 6th, 8th, and 9th level. Unless explicitly noted otherwise, a boon cannot be taken more than once.

Forsaker Insights:
Banishment
The Forsaker can banish summoned, called, or extraplanar creatures with an attack. When she deals damage to such a creature, it must succeed on a Will save or be destroyed if summoned, or returned to its origin if called or extraplanar. If the effect that summoned or called it is of a lower spell level than her Forsaker level, this ability does not allow a save.

Curse-Dodger
The Forsaker gains a +2 insight bonus on all saving throws against spells. When she knows the exact identity of a spell, such as by identifying it as it is being cast with Spellcraft, she increases this bonus by an amount equal to half her Forsaker level (minimum 1). As an immediate action, she may grant an ally who can see or hear her this bonus against a single spell.

Disjoining Strike
In place of an attack, the Forsaker can attempt to strike at an ongoing spell effect or magic item; the spell effect does not need to be tangible. This requires an attack roll against an AC of 15 + the effect's caster level if it is not on a creature or item, or the target's AC + 5 otherwise. If successful, the effect or item is suppressed for one round. If the spell's level or half the item's caster level is less than her Forsaker level, she may instead permanently dispel or destroy it.

Disruptive Presence
The Forsaker gains an aura with a fifteen-foot radius. This aura functions as an anti-magic field except that it does not suppress supernatural abilities or the passive effects of magic items and it cannot be disjoined. She may turn it on or off as a free action.

Equal Reaction
As an immediate action, the Forsaker can prevent a creature within 400 feet from teleporting with a spell, or otherwise moving by magically-aided means such as magical flight. For one round, that creature loses any movement modes or bonuses to movement granted by magic and cannot be moved by a spell again.

Lingering Nullification
When the Forsaker deals damage to a creature with an attack, that damage counts as continuous damage for the purposes of making concentration checks to cast spells.

Mental Redoubt
The Forsaker becomes immune to charms, compulsions, and other attempts to exercise mental control over her. She can still be possessed, but the possessing creature exercises no control over her thoughts or actions.

Returning to Roots
The Forsaker advances her dedicated class by one level, and uses its hit die, skills per level, and BAB progression for this Forsaker level. This insight cannot be changed out or swapped in without proper retraining; it must be selected when the insight choice first becomes available, and it is not lost if the Forsaker violates her code of conduct. She still does not gain a boon for this level. This insight can be taken multiple times.

Secrets of the Earth
The Forsaker learns obscure alchemical processes to sharpen the magic-repelling properties of certain substances. With 10gp of materials and an hour's work, she can give them the following permanent qualities:
Lead: Treated lead blocks Divination spells even in miniscule amounts, and can be powdered and infused into armor, clothing, or tattoos to prevent them from affecting or seeing the wearer. It also prevents spells such as Augury, Contact Other Plane, or even Wish from providing useful information about people, items, or locations so protected.
Iron: Treated iron is soft for a few minutes after being treated, and can be sculpted into various shapes such as bracelets or caltrops without needing any special skill. Spells of a level lower than the Forsaker's level cannot be cast while the caster is in direct, continuous contact with treated iron.
Salt: Treated salt does not change in appearance or taste. It can be used to create lines on the ground that extraplanar or incorporeal creatures cannot disrupt or cross. If eaten, it lets the consumer add their natural armor bonus to their touch AC for 24 hours.

Subtle Signs
The Forsaker learns how to see through even the most convincing magical trickery. She ignores concealment and miss chance provided by magic, sees through magical darkness or fog, invisibility, and illusions, always notices when a creature she can see is casting a spell, always succeeds on Sense Motive checks to notice when creatures are acting under the effects of an enchantment, and can discern when an object or creature has been altered or created by an instantaneous spell effect even if it has no magical aura.

Zeal Finds Means
By spending a full day in obsessive study, deep meditation, or prayer, the Forsaker can uncover a way to reach where she needs to be through nonmagical means where none seemed to previously exist. These means should not require more than a week's travel or work, but are not guaranteed to be safe, easy, or feasible without help. Examples include discovering a guarded naturally-occurring portal to the Abyss, or finding a Merfolk's Comb for sale before exploring a sunken ship.

Boons of Purity:
Adaptable Attunement
The Forsaker can attune herself to weapons, armor, and/or a shield to benefit from Automatic Bonus Progression as a free action once per round. As normal, the previous attunement(s) must be discarded in the process.

Alacrity
When making a full-attack action, the Forsaker makes one extra attack at her full BAB. Additionally, her speed increases by five feet as an enhancement bonus, plus five feet per two levels.

Hardened Resilience
The Forsaker gains resist energy 5 against acid, cold, fire, and electric damage, and suffers no ill effects from very hot or very cold environments. This boon may be taken multiple times and stacks with itself.

Inner Perfection
One of the Forsaker's ability scores increases by 1. This is an untyped bonus. This boon may be taken multiple times and stacks with itself.

Primal Regression
When the Forsaker rests to activate Purifying Sleep, she may also recover from any injuries or deformities such as lost limbs or ruined eyes, and then becomes fatigued for a full day. She may also recover from the effects of instantaneous spells like Flesh to Stone, and is considered "resting" whenever she is not dead but is helpless and unable to act. This ability and Purifying Sleep are not lost as the result of spells like Baleful Polymorph.

Rigorous Training
The Forsaker gains a bonus feat. This boon may be taken multiple times.

Spell Resistance
The Forsaker gains spell resistance equal to her character level + 11. This boon may be taken multiple times. Each time after the first, the Forsaker gains a +2 untyped bonus to her spell resistance.

Titan's Vigor
The Forsaker's weapons deal damage as if they were one size category larger. This stacks with all other size increases. Additionally, her reach improves by 5 feet.

Unclouded Intuition
The Forsaker gains a +4 untyped bonus to one skill, or a +2 untyped bonus to two skills. This boon may be taken multiple times and stacks with itself.


Reserved.


The biggest problems this prestige class faces are from party dynamics. Not being able to benefit from teleportation spells, for instance, means the entire party needs to bend to your own restrictions when traveling at higher levels. It means your character will constantly need different solutions from everyone else on any problem that's being solved by means of magic. In a lot of campaigns your character will become an annoying lodestone for everyone else. The magical item prohibition also throws a wrench into party balance. While ABP may keep this character competitive with other characters who use magical items normally, the problem is that the Forsaker's share of the magical loot will be diverted to the other party members which will cause those characters to become over-geared. This is just not a good dynamic and I don't feel it would be workable at most tables.

Full on no-exception magical prohibitions are just a bad idea. ABP should be run either for the entire table or not at all; running half-and-half just messes with the loot balance. While I'm aware that lifting these restrictions will take away much of its flavor (and require a power-down of some of these abilities, which are obviously balanced to counteract his inability to make use of magical buffs) I don't feel this class plays nice with the rest of the game system.

In any case, I'll comment on the class balance and design given its current incarnation and restrictions. I will give one piece of general advice, however: abilities that are at-will and automatically succeed should be very narrowly written, as they are inherently open to abuse.

InvisiblePink wrote:
Special: Base Attack Bonus +5, OR Knowledge (Arcana) 5 ranks.

Given that the only classes that don't receive spells or spell-like abilities are full BAB, I would simplify this to +5 BAB.

InvisiblePink wrote:
Must not use or directly benefit from spells, spell-like abilities, or magic items.

These don't belong in prerequisites and instead should be moved into a separate code of conduct or ex-forsaker section. It's not strictly a prerequisite but rather a requirement on subsequent behavior.

InvisiblePink wrote:

Keen Senses

...

You need to specify whether this is an (Ex) or (Su) ability. It's clearly not a SLA since the class is prohibited from using those, but that still leaves ambiguity on how it interacts with other effects (such as an antimagic field). Same goes for all the other abilities.

InvisiblePink wrote:

Purifying Sleep

At 1st level, natural vitality floods the Forsaker's body, helping her to shrug off afflictions. She gains fast healing 1, and when she rests for at least 8 hours she recovers from all ability damage, ability drain, negative levels, and diseases or curses. This also ends any spells currently affecting her, whether or not their duration is permanent.

Much too strong for something gained as early as the 6th level, even with the steep downsides. Passive fast healing 1 is amazing and automatically ending permanent spells or effects regardless of how virulent they are is too much. While I understand it needs to get around its own inability to benefit from restorative magic, this goes too far in letting it walk off anything that doesn't outright kill him.

InvisiblePink wrote:

Dedicated Class

As a group defined by what they are not, Forsakers naturally show great variety in what they are. At 2nd level, the Forsaker chooses any base class to be her dedicated class. Every Forsaker level where she does not gain an insight also counts as a level in her dedicated class for the purposes of class features and meeting prerequisites. She uses her dedicated class's hit die, skills per level, and BAB progression for those Forsaker levels. This feature is not lost if the Forsaker violates her code of conduct.

This is way too convoluted. The Forsaker should use its own progressions, and if it's going to add to your base class's level for the purposes of meeting prerequisites you should just add them together in full to keep it simple.

Forsaker Insights:

InvisiblePink wrote:

Banishment

The Forsaker can banish summoned, called, or extraplanar creatures with an attack. When she deals damage to such a creature, it must succeed on a Will save or be destroyed if summoned, or returned to its origin if called or extraplanar. If the effect that summoned or called it is of a lower spell level than her Forsaker level, this ability does not allow a save.

Way too strong. At-will save-or-die abilities without usage restrictions should include a "once a target has saved, it cannot be affected by this ability again for 24 hours" clause, and the automatic success against spell levels lower than his class level is too strong. Being able to deliver this as part of a regular full attack is also a bit much for ranged characters; I would suggest either restricting it to melee attacks only, or require it to be a standard action attack to use this ability so a ranged character can't rapid fire to dismiss four or five creatures in one round.

Also you need to state what the DC is. Typically it will be 10 + 1/2 forsaker level + ability score modifier.

InvisiblePink wrote:

Disruptive Presence

The Forsaker gains an aura with a fifteen-foot radius. This aura functions as an anti-magic field except that it does not suppress supernatural abilities or the passive effects of magic items and it cannot be disjoined. She may turn it on or off as a free action.

Way, way, way too strong. Free action passive AMF is already insanely over the top, but allowing (Su) abilities and passive magic items to continue working makes it even more abusable. I'd scrap this outright.

InvisiblePink wrote:

Equal Reaction

As an immediate action, the Forsaker can prevent a creature within 400 feet from teleporting with a spell, or otherwise moving by magically-aided means such as magical flight. For one round, that creature loses any movement modes or bonuses to movement granted by magic and cannot be moved by a spell again.

Too strong; immediate action with automatic success in a 400 ft range is too good, and stripping their flight entirely would cause the creatures to fall. The reality is that Pathfinder is a game where aerial battles can occur and some characters and creatures rely on magical flight to participate in them. This would cause such creatures to plummet to the ground and take falling damage with no save, which is quite blatantly OP from an immediate action ability that automatically succeeds. Even without considering the consequence of falling, total immobility with no save or chance to resist it is much to strong. If it's going to stop magical flight it should be a standard action with limited range and a chance of failure.

Teleportation is more reasonable to interfere with, but if it's an immediate action it should require some kind of attack roll or allow some sort of saving throw. Since it's at-will it should also have a "once the target has saved they are immune for 24 hours" clause, for the same reason as the banishment effect.

InvisiblePink wrote:

Lingering Nullification

When the Forsaker deals damage to a creature with an attack, that damage counts as continuous damage for the purposes of making concentration checks to cast spells.

Either this ability should have some usage limitation, or it should use some fraction of your full damage. Look at the Magus' Lingering Pain power as a guideline; costs a limited daily power to activate and an immediate action. Also if you aren't going to use an immediate action, ensure it has a "once per round" limitation, since stacking the effect multiple times would be excessive.

InvisiblePink wrote:

Mental Redoubt

The Forsaker becomes immune to charms, compulsions, and other attempts to exercise mental control over her. She can still be possessed, but the possessing creature exercises no control over her thoughts or actions.

Too broad; outright immunities should be much narrower than this. Even just charms or just compulsions is probably pushing it because those are very broad classes of effects in their own right. Probably the better solution is to reduce it from immunity to some kind of save bonus.

InvisiblePink wrote:

Returning to Roots

The Forsaker advances her dedicated class by one level, and uses its hit die, skills per level, and BAB progression for this Forsaker level. This insight cannot be changed out or swapped in without proper retraining; it must be selected when the insight choice first becomes available, and it is not lost if the Forsaker violates her code of conduct. She still does not gain a boon for this level. This insight can be taken multiple times.

In addition to being ludicrously overpowered, this effect breaks some fundamental system presumptions. You might be able to get away with just giving the class features as if you were one level higher (ignoring HD, skills, BAB, saves, etc), but that would still be very powerful.

InvisiblePink wrote:

Secrets of the Earth

The Forsaker learns obscure alchemical processes to sharpen the magic-repelling properties of certain substances. With 10gp of materials and an hour's work, she can give them the following permanent qualities:
Lead: Treated lead blocks Divination spells even in miniscule amounts, and can be powdered and infused into armor, clothing, or tattoos to prevent them from affecting or seeing the wearer. It also prevents spells such as Augury, Contact Other Plane, or even Wish from providing useful information about people, items, or locations so protected.
Iron: Treated iron is soft for a few minutes after being treated, and can be sculpted into various shapes such as bracelets or caltrops without needing any special skill. Spells of a level lower than the Forsaker's level cannot be cast while the caster is in direct, continuous contact with treated iron.
Salt: Treated salt does not change in appearance or taste. It can be used to create lines on the ground that extraplanar or incorporeal creatures cannot disrupt or cross. If eaten, it lets the consumer add their natural armor bonus to their touch AC for 24 hours.

Too powerful for permanent effects that are not restricted to the Forsaker's own person. These need to only function for the Forsaker and should lose their power shortly after leaving his possession.

Lead: this is written too broadly; it should be restricted to only scrying effects. Other divination effects and wishes shouldn't be blocked.

Iron: should allow a concentration check or some other workaround, and needs to be tightened up to avoid abuse. For instance, as written you could mix iron filings into a tanglefoot bag for some truly diabolical anti-caster shenanigans.

Salt: should be possible to bypass with some sort of check, and it needs a "once they've succeeded they can't be affected for 24 hours" clause.

InvisiblePink wrote:

Subtle Signs

The Forsaker learns how to see through even the most convincing magical trickery. She ignores concealment and miss chance provided by magic, sees through magical darkness or fog, invisibility, and illusions, always notices when a creature she can see is casting a spell, always succeeds on Sense Motive checks to notice when creatures are acting under the effects of an enchantment, and can discern when an object or creature has been altered or created by an instantaneous spell effect even if it has no magical aura.

Ludicrously over the top. Ignoring magical concealment, fog, and darkness would be an incredibly powerful benefit all on its own, and the rest is gratuitous overkill. As I said up-front, if it's at-will and automatically succeeds it should be narrowly written. As written this ability is a hard "nope" to multiple disciplines of spellcasting.

InvisiblePink wrote:

Zeal Finds Means

By spending a full day in obsessive study, deep meditation, or prayer, the Forsaker can uncover a way to reach where she needs to be through nonmagical means where none seemed to previously exist. These means should not require more than a week's travel or work, but are not guaranteed to be safe, easy, or feasible without help. Examples include discovering a guarded naturally-occurring portal to the Abyss, or finding a Merfolk's Comb for sale before exploring a sunken ship.

Too open-ended; this ability should be more well-defined. Remember, the GM needs a hint on how to apply these rules too!

Boons of Purity:

InvisiblePink wrote:

Adaptable Attunement

The Forsaker can attune herself to weapons, armor, and/or a shield to benefit from Automatic Bonus Progression as a free action once per round. As normal, the previous attunement(s) must be discarded in the process.

Once per round limit doesn't support a throwing build, and since you can't use a returning weapon this leaves you without a good option to pursue that. Seems decent for a switch-hitter, though.

InvisiblePink wrote:

Alacrity

When making a full-attack action, the Forsaker makes one extra attack at her full BAB. Additionally, her speed increases by five feet as an enhancement bonus, plus five feet per two levels.

Perma-haste is a bit too good for something you can get at 7th level. I'd put a higher level requirement on this. Maybe even consider making it a fixed feature because it's something of a must-have.

InvisiblePink wrote:

Inner Perfection

One of the Forsaker's ability scores increases by 1. This is an untyped bonus. This boon may be taken multiple times and stacks with itself.

Rigorous Training
The Forsaker gains a bonus feat. This boon may be taken multiple times.

These are significantly below

Too weak compared to the other abilities on offer here.

InvisiblePink wrote:

Unclouded Intuition

The Forsaker gains a +4 untyped bonus to one skill, or a +2 untyped bonus to two skills. This boon may be taken multiple times and stacks with itself.

Much too weak; cheap competence bonus items go up to +5 competence checks, and since the Forsaker doesn't get those this doesn't even begin to make up the difference.

I'd suggest making it a +5 competence bonus rather than +4 untyped, and allowing the bonus to be shifted once per day to bring it up to power.

(PS: there's no point reserving posts on Paizo's forums, since there's a 1 hour limit on making edits. Link to a Google doc instead if you need to keep regular updates)


Thank you for the in-depth feedback! I agree that most of the things you've pointed out are too strong, but I'll have to think long and hard about how to fix some of them.

As for the missing save DCs- I could've sworn that there was a general rule that Ex abilities with DCs defaulted to (10+1/2 HD+Con) if not specified otherwise, which was what was intended, but I seem to have been mistaken.


InvisiblePink wrote:
As for the missing save DCs- I could've sworn that there was a general rule that Ex abilities with DCs defaulted to (10+1/2 HD+Con) if not specified otherwise, which was what was intended, but I seem to have been mistaken.

That's the general rule for monster abilities. Their statblock only lists the final DC and not how it's calculated, but if you do reverse-engineer it you'll find that's the formula.


So, given that I agree with the large majority of your concerns about the class's balance and am mulling over ways to fix them, I'll just point out the handful of things you noticed which I don't believe need fixing.

Keen Senses: Is already specified as an Extraordinary ability, though I doubt you'd be seeing many auras inside an AMF anyway. "All Forsaker class features are Extraordinary unless noted otherwise" (and currently, none are).

Purifying Sleep: I don't consider the fast healing to be overpowered as per my design goals. A "moderately optimized" party, by my definition, will be using a Wand of Infernal Healing or similar means to heal between encounters for pocket change anyway. If they're not doing that, then yes, it will be too strong by comparison.

Mental Redoubt: This is (part of the benefits of) a non-alignment-restricted Protection From Evil, which can be obtained- for example- from a wand or a resonated ioun stone. One could argue about whether PFE is itself overpowered, but I think that not having any access to any form of it would constitute "gimping" the class.


InvisiblePink wrote:
Keen Senses: Is already specified as an Extraordinary ability, though I doubt you'd be seeing many auras inside an AMF anyway. "All Forsaker class features are Extraordinary unless noted otherwise" (and currently, none are).

I must have missed the general disclaimer. If it's only for your table it's not a huge deal to follow conventions to the letter, but having the (Ex) next to every ability is the standard for good reason; much of the time GM's won't be reading classes front-to-back, but rather directly jumping to the ability that's currently being used, so having a general disclaimer elsewhere is really easy to miss.

InvisiblePink wrote:
Purifying Sleep: I don't consider the fast healing to be overpowered as per my design goals. A "moderately optimized" party, by my definition, will be using a Wand of Infernal Healing or similar means to heal between encounters for pocket change anyway. If they're not doing that, then yes, it will be too strong by comparison.

Infernal Healing costs money; roughly 1.5 gp per hit point. If you need to go with CLW it's about 2.7 gp per hit point. This is really cost-effective, and for normal play past the low levels it's a marginal cost that doesn't really have a huge impact in the long-haul. However, because it's not free characters can't just suck up any and all damage; there's still an incentive to avoid damage. If you're constantly just saying "oh, we have wands, damage doesn't matter" you're going to end up hemorrhaging cash.

This character can simply heal off any damage indefinitely. This makes him outright immune to all forms of environmental hazard that deal less than 1 damage per round, and if he can find even brief reprieves he can survive significantly more deadly hazards. This guy can simply trigger traps because anything that doesn't outright kill him can be walked off at no penalty. In other words, his behavior will change because of this, and he will be free to act in a manner that characters that must pay for their healing wouldn't.

This is what makes this ability problematic; it's not the ability to heal off the damage sustained in the course of standard play, but the ability to take on additional damage that players would normally go out of their way to avoid. Anything that doesn't outright kill him can be walked off, and that opens up a lot of abusive potential. This would be fine at higher levels, where characters are expected to bend or break rules, but at 6th that's problematic.

The healing isn't the only problem here: he's also functionally immune to all long-term afflictions regardless of how virulent they are. This is fine for small amounts of ability damage or mundane diseases you go from fighting off dire rats, but it gets a little bit trickier when you're dealing with curses or other afflictions that are intentionally designed to be hard to deal with and create long-term challenges.

I would suggest rather than just removing the effects, having the Forsaker benefit from the effect of spells like Remove Disease or Restoration (caster level = character level) when he rests. This would still remove most such effects, but wouldn't necessarily beat particularly powerful effects coming from more dangerous sources.

InvisiblePink wrote:
Mental Redoubt: This is (part of the benefits of) a non-alignment-restricted Protection From Evil, which can be obtained- for example- from a wand or a resonated ioun stone. One could argue about whether PFE is itself overpowered, but I think that not having any access to any form of it would constitute "gimping" the class.

Protection from Evil has a fairly short duration and it must be cast proactively to grant immunity. It's not something you can keep active 24/7, and if you cast it after the fact the target only gets a second save and the effect is merely suppressed for the duration rather than removed. Having passive protection from evil is very different from the more reactive use of the spell.

I also think that a lot of people over-value this spell due to the GM and adventure author tendency to reflexively make all adversaries evil. It's very unreliable in adventures where antagonist alignments can vary, even if the majority are still evil.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Homebrew and House Rules / Forsaker (Antimagic PrC) All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Homebrew and House Rules