ArtBadger
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I'm playing in a campaign module as a level 5 Gnomish Alchemist. I took the Chirugeon and Wasteland Blighter Archetypes, along with Healing Bombs and the Healing Hands Feat, in order to act as the party's demi-healer. But mostly we do fine with potions and wands, so my healing powers are handy but not 100% essential. Which means that usually I contribute damage to the group in the form of bombs. And they do great! It's awesome!
But even as a Gnome with the Favored Class Bonus, I can only throw 9 bombs a day as a level 5 Alchemist, and we usually have multiple combats between each rest period. These combats also tend to be small affairs, with 1-3 enemies, and usually it's just not the perfect situation for tossing bombs. Sometimes I just need to snipe.
What are some good options to boost my non-bomb damage? My stats are aimed at casting and bomb-throwing, with Dex and Intelligence being my best, and Strength being the worst (it's a 9). I do have a decent AC (19 before buffs) and the highest HP of the party (48). If I can get a recently-looted Mithril Shirt reshaped to fit a Small creature instead of a Medium creature, it'll be even better.
My +1 Crossbow is doing ok for damage, but I'm just not great at using it, since my Feats are being eaten up by bombing and healing. Any suggestions on a low-investment way to do semi-useful damage as an Alchemist when either out of bombs, or trying to conserve them?
I do have Targeted Bomb Admixture for single target damage, but that still uses up my limited bomb supply for the day.
ArtBadger
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Throwing alchemical weapons - acid is the cheapest - could be more effective since you get to add your Int mod to their damage.
Oh, wow, I actually never noticed that Alchemist class ability. Even a simple Acid flask is suddenly 1d6+4 direct and 5 splash damage. That's not bad at all, especially when you can choose between Acid, Fire and Cold damage pretty easily. If I combine them with a Hybridization Flask, I think that goes up to one attack dealing 2d6+8 direct damage with 10 splash. So definitely a possibility for backup to regular bombs.
| Scott Wilhelm |
I was thinking a cool thing to do with an Alchemist would be to take the Explosive Missile Discovery. I was thinking Grenadier Alchemist, but you might not be able to do that, but you can use Explosive Missile. Explosive Missile lets you put your Bombs on your Crossbow Bolts, combining the 2 attacks. You can take Deadly Aim. You can't use Deadly Aim with Bombs, but you can with your Crossbow.
Do you have to use a Crossbow? You're a Gnome: Gnome it UP! Why not use a Ballista? Why not use a Cannon? Create a simulacrum of an Elephant or something and mount a cannon on it. then stack it with Deadly Aim and Explosive Missile.
How about this: get an upsized crossbow. Drop it. Cast Enlarge Person on yourself, pick up the Crossbow. Dip a level in Ranger, then use a Wand of Gravity Bow, between the 2, your crossbow will benefit a 2 size damage step.
Use Fire Bolts .
ArtBadger
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I don't have to stick to the +1 Crossbow, it just happens to be the only magical ranged weapon we've found so far. I was given it in a dream by a swarm of magical demon-wasps, so it also has a poison effect. It isn't BAD, but it only does 1d8 damage, and I'm not great at hitting high-AC enemies with it.
| Meirril |
If you can afford a feat, grab weapon finesse. Then angle to get a light weapon with agile enchant on it. Most alchemists bump their dex, so weapon finesse should make you semi competent at hitting things in melee.
Other than that keep an eye open for any magic items you can use. Lots of parties collect wands and scrolls but never use them. It is generally a lot easier to use a wand during a fight than trying to give extracts to your allies mid-fight. Between your alchemist and a wizard, the alchemist has a much greater chance of using an offensive wand since a wizard generally wants to use their spell slots before whatever random spell came with the wand.
| Scott Wilhelm |
I don't have to stick to the +1 Crossbow, it just happens to be the only magical ranged weapon we've found so far. I was given it in a dream by a swarm of magical demon-wasps, so it also has a poison effect. It isn't BAD, but it only does 1d8 damage, and I'm not great at hitting high-AC enemies with it.
It would be easy enough to up the Damage to 3d6. Dip a level in Ranger and get a Wand of Gravity Bow. Your Bolts will inflict Damage as if you were 1 size bigger. Enlarge Person is an Alchemist Extract. Get some Size Medium Bolts. Set them down. Enlarge. Pick them Up. Kill people.
| Cavall |
Yes targeted admixture is great as it takes away splash for really hitting one guy hard. If you find yourself against spread out foes, or dont eant to look into having to take options to skip allies with splash damage, or jlface string single targets, its easily the beat way to get bang for your bomb.
ArtBadger
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I like the idea of Splash Weapon Mastery and using flasks as my off-weapon until I get something better to shoot people with. I already have Point-Blank and Precise Shot, which do help.
But now I'm looking into it and it seems that there will be a lot of issues keeping flasks in-hand, since they take so long to draw. Hopefully my DM will let me slide on that somehow, since even Quick Draw specifically forbids its use with alchemical weapons for some weird reason.
| avr |
It should be a move action to get an acid flask or something out if you're at all prepared. Move action to draw, standard action to throw, 5' step in there somewhere to adjust position should be workable in many situations. Being prepared might mean getting an adventurer's sash for 20 gp at low levels or a handy haversack for 2000 gp a bit later.
No, it's not something you'll want to be doing at 10th level but you might well have other options by then. The ability to polymorph into something with a bunch of natural attacks perhaps. Even ranged natural attacks, there are a few.
The reasoning with quick draw went like this: in D&D 3.5 it was not unknown for rogues to get feats like TWF and rapid shot, find a way of staying unseen or keeping the enemy flat-footed for a round, then to shower acid flasks or whatever on an unsuspecting dragon causing them to explode. Nerfing quick draw prevents this 'flask rogue'. They also put in a rule preventing precision damage with splash weapons to make sure. PF's alchemist class might well have started as a replacement for that build.
Firebug
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Then they put those features back in (though slightly restricted) with the Underground Chemist Archetype. Quickdraw alchemicals, and precision damage with splash weapons (but only once per round).
| Archimedes The Great |
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As indicated, alchemical splash weapons are great, especially at low levels. And the DC can even scale decently well if you use the "full pouch" spell.
Here's some things that may help what you're looking for.
Feats:
Some of these aren't really all that powerful, but definitely help an alchemist who wants to forgo the rout of using a stupid crossbow. You're an alchemist after all, not a wizard!
Concentrated SplashLike targeted bomb admixture, but for all alchemical weapons, and it doesn't use any action.
Spalsh Weapon MasteryObviously listed above, but pretty good.
Close Quarters ThrowerA reasonable GM would allow this to apply to both bombs & splash weapons for an Alchemist. Since there is no realistic difference for either action.
Items:
Portable Alchemy lab (You'll want it for crafting)
Alchemist's Atlatl to increase splash weapon range.
Hybridization Funnel This is an absolute must, especially for the price. Put that craft alchemy to work.
Focusing Flask Combine doses to make it more potent during downtime.
Spring Loaded Sheath Two of these will allow you to save action economy in arming yourself at least twice in a single combat.
Bombchucker You should already have this..best effect in the game for 12 gold.
Alchemical Weapons:
Some deal decent damage, some have cool debuffs, and with a hybridization funnel you can have both.
Holy Water
Burst jar
Ghast Retch Flask
Fungal Stun Vial
Tanglefoot Bag
Drugs..(Opium is an incredible debuff for only 25 gold) Inhalation, Injury, or Consumption (typically applied with a syring spear or a medlance). Yes it gives some temporary HP and +2 to fortitude saves to the target, but it also fatigues them for an hour, deals 1d4 Con and 1d4 Wis damage thus hindering HP and Fort/Will saves, with a base DC of 20.
The alchemist isn't the most powerful class, but It is the most unique and fun in my opinion. Hope you have fun, and good luck.
Firebug
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Alchemical Weapons:
Some deal decent damage, some have cool debuffs, and with a hybridization funnel you can have both.
Holy Water
Burst jar
Ghast Retch Flask
Fungal Stun Vial
Tanglefoot Bag
Drugs
Of these, only Holy Water works with the Hybridization Funnel. Burst Jar is 2 liquids that react when combined, Ghast Retch is a powder, Fungal stun isn't described as... anything, and Tanglefoot bag is a tar or resin, not a liquid. And drugs aren't splash weapons.
| Archimedes The Great |
Of these, only Holy Water works with the Hybridization Funnel. Burst Jar is 2 liquids that react when combined, Ghast Retch is a powder, Fungal stun isn't described as... anything, and Tanglefoot bag is a tar or resin, not a liquid. And drugs aren't splash weapons.
Rules Shmules!
I was more just placing an overall statement that the hyb funnel is great, but you are right though Firebug.
Although my friends and I have largely ignored the semantic restrictions of alchemical weapons and the Hybridization, especially since they are such a lackluster option at mid/late levels.
Firebug
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If you are looking for pure damage and don't mind level dipping, I recommend a level of Medium.
Channel Champion, take Spirit Focus(Champion) and Spirit-Bonded enchantment on your armor and now you are at +3 to hit with all attack rolls (and fort saves) and +5 to all non-spell damage rolls. Bombs/Alchemicals/pretty much everything you do is non-spell damage rolls. Sure you lose 1 level of bomb/extract progression, but throwing a single flask of acid for 1d6 +4(int) +5(Medium) * 50%(concentrated splash) = average 18.75.
You also get a few cantrips like Detect Magic/Prestidigitation and a few uses per day that can turn a failure into success (Spirit Surge).