Horrifically high ACs, non-epic attacks, and you (well, me, anyway), aka, “Can someone help me hit this jerk!?”


3.5/d20/OGL

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Swarms and troops hit automatically. If you don't use them, you should.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
PFRPGrognard wrote:
Swarms and troops hit automatically. If you don't use them, you should.

597 hp goes down really quickly to swarms and troops. I mean, you'll build a new basement complete with a fountain in that time.


+1 for another useless post there, baggy.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
PFRPGrognard wrote:
+1 for another useless post there, baggy.

How? You're suggesting that an AC 60 hp 597 character to be challenged using swarms and troops, likely on account on the hitting automatically and bypassing the high AC. Sounds good on paper, but the math says you're wrong.

Swarms and troops do far less damage than non-swarm/troop monsters at their CR. Why? Because balance and math! Remember, we're playing a game with some math behind it, not Cops and Robbers. So, swarms and troops do less damage than "normal" monsters at their CR because:

- they can hit multiple characters at once
- they are usually immune to melee weapons, thus making a large chunk of PC damage output irrelevant, which in turn leads to fights against swarms lasting longer

Compare a CR8 Hellwasp Swarm with its 3d6 damage (11.5 avg) to CR8 monster creation guidelines which peg melee monsters at 26 to 35 dmg avg.

Swarms and troops are pretty much attrition opponents (which, by the way, is a nice and welcome break from the usual rocket tag nature of PF1 fights). But that isn't helping you much in challenging somebody whose hp total is way beyond what a non-optimized character has at that level (which would be something at 200-300hp most of the time).

So, nope, that won't work, unless of course you'd say that the swarm does 100 damage per round because you're the GM and the math in the books can go stick itself. In which case, one could wonder why you are playing one of the most math-heavy RPGs out there instead of opting something that was more tailored to a "GM says rock falls, everybody dies" type of gameplay to begin with.

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