Samaw
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Based on the following statement about spells then they should be able to Know a spell with Metamagic already applied to it.
"These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of through study."
| Dave Justus |
Magic Missile is a spell.
Empowered Magic Missile is a spell modified by a meta-magic feat.
Your spells known is appropriate for the former, but not the later.
As to your question about 'unusual' spells, that is up to your GM. He could allow you to research a new spell, we'll call it 'Magic Rocket' that has mechanical effects exactly like an Empowered Magic Missile.
Personally, as a GM I would approve that, but your GM will have to make the call. If it is PFS, it wouldn't be allowed.
| Scrapper |
Based on the following statement about spells then they should be able to Know a spell with Metamagic already applied to it.
"These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of through study."
If allowed by a GM, you can create a variant spell, like Empowered Burning Hands, maybe call it Cinder's Fan, but using up one of your known 3rd level spell slots. As a new spell, if approved, it wouldn't require you to possess the feat Empower spell, but a DM may exclude it from being further Empowered. Remember though, you are using one of your known spell slots which you can change out a single spell from every time you level up (one level lower than your max allowed spell level), not at every rest like prepared casters.
With Great Power comes Great Limitations!
| Meirril |
That whole "gained some understand of through study" is to account for spells created through research. If you want to spend the time and gold to create a new spell that does exactly what the other spell does with a metamagic thrown on it that should be fairly easy to get your GM's approval. It will eve come with a bonus of having a higher DC to match the spells new level.
I very specifically wouldn't allow someone to learn a spell with a metamagic already applied to it because this creates a weird situation where you know a spell that is lower level but requires a higher level slot to cast, and it would be an exception to a general rule. It smacks of rules abuse. Especially since there is a way to do this already and what you propose is much cheaper. Paying feats is easy to control.
Requiring you add a metamagic version of a spell...what if you get a scroll with a metamagic on it that you don't know and you use something like mnemonic vestment to cast it? That gives you a free metamagic feat? Or you start buying pages of spell knowledge that have silent already applied to them 'just in case'. The potential for abuse is just too big to allow something like this.
Samaw
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Samaw wrote:Based on the following statement about spells then they should be able to Know a spell with Metamagic already applied to it.
"These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of through study."
If allowed by a GM, you can create a variant spell, like Empowered Burning Hands, maybe call it Cinder's Fan, but using up one of your known 3rd level spell slots. As a new spell, if approved, it wouldn't require you to possess the feat Empower spell, but a DM may exclude it from being further Empowered. Remember though, you are using one of your known spell slots which you can change out a single spell from every time you level up (one level lower than your max allowed spell level), not at every rest like prepared casters.
With Great Power comes Great Limitations!
Thank you this will allow what I am wanting to do.
| avr |
Not by the basic sorcerer; empowered magic missile is not a separate spell, though you might research a spell like it.
There's at least one feat for a sorcerer to prepare a spell with metamagic in one or more spell slots to speed casting (not spells known slots) and an arcanist can do this. A sorcerer with the arcane bloodline can ignore the extended casting time a few times a day from 3rd level. Quickened spells ignore extended casting time from any metamagic.
| SheepishEidolon |
The CRB is rather restrictive about it:
Spells: A sorcerer casts arcane spells drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list presented in Chapter 10.
Now this list was expanded by other books, and there is the "unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of through study" loophole. A GM can allow you to learn a new spell that's basically empowered magic missile.
However, it's usually not a good deal. Sorcerers have a very limited amount of known spells already. With spending a precious known spell on something that could be done via metamagic you cut down your versatility, in favor of a (tiny?) advantage in action economy. You could have learned fireball, haste or fly instead, to stick with the 3rd-level example...
So what's your intention? Do you want to stick with magic missile as your primary spell?