Sorcerer's & Metamagic spells


Advice

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I can't find anything saying a Sorcerer can not use a known spell slot to know a spell with metamagic already applied to it so the extended casting time would not be applied to it.

Does anyone know if this can or can not be done.

I.E. 3rd level spell slot Empowered Magic Missile.


That would be because sorcerers don't have spell slots. If you want to cheese, just play an arcanist; they work like you want sorcs to.

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they have spells Known per level.

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Based on the following statement about spells then they should be able to Know a spell with Metamagic already applied to it.

"These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of through study."


Magic Missile is a spell.

Empowered Magic Missile is a spell modified by a meta-magic feat.

Your spells known is appropriate for the former, but not the later.

As to your question about 'unusual' spells, that is up to your GM. He could allow you to research a new spell, we'll call it 'Magic Rocket' that has mechanical effects exactly like an Empowered Magic Missile.

Personally, as a GM I would approve that, but your GM will have to make the call. If it is PFS, it wouldn't be allowed.


"Unusual Spells" is addressed in the section on Sorcerer Repertoire. It covers new, unique spells learned at GM discretion, not spell+metamagic. Of course, with GM permission anything's possible.

The feat Spontaneous Metafocus allows normal metamagic casting times.


Samaw wrote:

Based on the following statement about spells then they should be able to Know a spell with Metamagic already applied to it.

"These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of through study."

If allowed by a GM, you can create a variant spell, like Empowered Burning Hands, maybe call it Cinder's Fan, but using up one of your known 3rd level spell slots. As a new spell, if approved, it wouldn't require you to possess the feat Empower spell, but a DM may exclude it from being further Empowered. Remember though, you are using one of your known spell slots which you can change out a single spell from every time you level up (one level lower than your max allowed spell level), not at every rest like prepared casters.

With Great Power comes Great Limitations!


That whole "gained some understand of through study" is to account for spells created through research. If you want to spend the time and gold to create a new spell that does exactly what the other spell does with a metamagic thrown on it that should be fairly easy to get your GM's approval. It will eve come with a bonus of having a higher DC to match the spells new level.

I very specifically wouldn't allow someone to learn a spell with a metamagic already applied to it because this creates a weird situation where you know a spell that is lower level but requires a higher level slot to cast, and it would be an exception to a general rule. It smacks of rules abuse. Especially since there is a way to do this already and what you propose is much cheaper. Paying feats is easy to control.

Requiring you add a metamagic version of a spell...what if you get a scroll with a metamagic on it that you don't know and you use something like mnemonic vestment to cast it? That gives you a free metamagic feat? Or you start buying pages of spell knowledge that have silent already applied to them 'just in case'. The potential for abuse is just too big to allow something like this.

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Scrapper wrote:
Samaw wrote:

Based on the following statement about spells then they should be able to Know a spell with Metamagic already applied to it.

"These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of through study."

If allowed by a GM, you can create a variant spell, like Empowered Burning Hands, maybe call it Cinder's Fan, but using up one of your known 3rd level spell slots. As a new spell, if approved, it wouldn't require you to possess the feat Empower spell, but a DM may exclude it from being further Empowered. Remember though, you are using one of your known spell slots which you can change out a single spell from every time you level up (one level lower than your max allowed spell level), not at every rest like prepared casters.

With Great Power comes Great Limitations!

Thank you this will allow what I am wanting to do.


Alternatively if you are just looking for 3rd level force damage blasting spell battering blast is an option.


doomman47 wrote:
Alternatively if you are just looking for 3rd level force damage blasting spell battering blast is an option.

A horrifying option, at least against single targets!


Not by the basic sorcerer; empowered magic missile is not a separate spell, though you might research a spell like it.

There's at least one feat for a sorcerer to prepare a spell with metamagic in one or more spell slots to speed casting (not spells known slots) and an arcanist can do this. A sorcerer with the arcane bloodline can ignore the extended casting time a few times a day from 3rd level. Quickened spells ignore extended casting time from any metamagic.

Grand Lodge

It is not a direct answer to your but mount and phantom steed have really helped my meatmagic using casters deal with the lose of move actions.


The CRB is rather restrictive about it:

Quote:
Spells: A sorcerer casts arcane spells drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list presented in Chapter 10.

Now this list was expanded by other books, and there is the "unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of through study" loophole. A GM can allow you to learn a new spell that's basically empowered magic missile.

However, it's usually not a good deal. Sorcerers have a very limited amount of known spells already. With spending a precious known spell on something that could be done via metamagic you cut down your versatility, in favor of a (tiny?) advantage in action economy. You could have learned fireball, haste or fly instead, to stick with the 3rd-level example...

So what's your intention? Do you want to stick with magic missile as your primary spell?

Grand Lodge

The feat you need is prefered spell.

Do you guys know if you need to pick targets for your spell when you start casting it as a full round action or when you end the casting and the effect takes place?


all effects of spells are done at the end of casting it. not the start .(unless said otherwise in the spell itself.) such as which creature to summon. what energy to resist. targets etc.


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Another feat is Spontaneous Metafocus.

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