Some notes on alchemy

[Ed Reppert]

Been looking at alchemists lately. I put all the alchemical items in a spreadsheet so I could see how things fit together. Some things jumped out at me:

1. Bombs do not require resonance points.
2. Poisons do not require resonance points.
3. Mutagens do require resonance points.
4. Among the other elixirs two (antidote and antiplague) do not require resonance points. The rest do require them.
5. All mutagens are uncommon.
6. One poison (sleep poison) is uncommon.
7. Everything else is common.
8. One tool (Philospher's Stone) requires resonance points. The rest do not.
9. No alchemical item has the invested trait, so none need resonance points just to have them around, like armor and some magical items.
10. An alchemist has three ways to created alchemical items: crafting (using the crafting rules as a downtime activity), advanced alchemy (per the class ability, to create items during each day's preparation time), and quick alchemy (part of advanced alchemy, to create items "on the fly").
11. A non-alchemist can only use the first of those three methods.
12. Items created with advanced alchemy (including quick alchemy) are "infused". Creating them costs a resonance point. Activating them does not. Infused items are short lived. I infer that items created with normal crafting, during downtime, are not infused and do not lose their efficacy after a time as infused items do.
13. Other than infused items, the items listed above as requiring resonance points require them to activate the item.
14. An alchemist's starting formula book is free, and contains formulas for eight common level one items. Which means it does not contain formulas for the other ten, so the alchemist has to find or buy them. Or, I suppose, research them, though I'm not sure there are rules to support that at present.
15. Alchemist's resonance points are tied to intelligence, his key ability. The only other classes whose resonance points are tied to their key ability are bards and sorcerers, whose key ability is charisma. The other spellcasting classes, clerics, druids, and wizards, don't get the benefit of that.

Mostly this was in aid of me getting my head around alchemy. Did I miss anything? :-)

[Zwordsman]

adendum to 14.
Their alchemy kit is not free. costs 60 and weighs 2 bulk. It is required for Adv Alchemy (which includes quick alchemy).

I believe there is a line somewhere abour Formula book. You know the formula so you do not lose them if you lose the book, and techincally do not need it for adv alchemy or quick alchemy.
but I do not have a quote for it right now.

15. yeah. but the +RP feat runs off Charisma still.
Addtionally no other class uses RP for their core abiltiies just the standard item/attunements.
"other spell casting classes" Alchs aren't casters. Additionally, as far as I am aware, RP is unrelated to any casting. they use Spell Points.
RP is the same for ever other class, I know of.

[Ed Reppert]

Zwordsman wrote:

adendum to 14.

Their alchemy kit is not free. costs 60 and weighs 2 bulk. It is required for Adv Alchemy (which includes quick alchemy).

I believe there is a line somewhere abour Formula book. You know the formula so you do not lose them if you lose the book, and techincally do not need it for adv alchemy or quick alchemy.
but I do not have a quote for it right now.

15. yeah. but the +RP feat runs off Charisma still.
Addtionally no other class uses RP for their core abiltiies just the standard item/attunements.
"other spell casting classes" Alchs aren't casters. Additionally, as far as I am aware, RP is unrelated to any casting. they use Spell Points.
RP is the same for ever other class, I know of.

On the kit, fair enough. I forgot to mention it. :-)

On line about formula books, "Screen shot, or it didn't happen." :-) Perhaps you're thinking of this, from the description of "Formula Book" on page 185: "Formulas can also appear on parchment sheets, tablets, and almost any other medium, and there’s no need for you to copy them into a specific book as long as you can reference them." So the formula has to be written down somewhere and you can lose it, or at least lose whatever it's written on. "As long as you can reference them" seems to indicate that if you lose it, you're out of luck.
On "alchs aren't casters", I do know that. My "other casters" means "other than the bards and sorcerers I just mentioned". I should have added "nor do non-casters". And I didn't say anything about using RP to cast spells or powers.

[Zwordsman]

Well.. for one you take Alchemical Crafting feat. You get the formulas immediately. and there is this line "If you have a formula book, you can put these into the book." this implies you have the formula yourself. cause otherwise it would tell you you los the formula if you don't have the book first.
Snare and magic craft feats also do so.

Craft the skill specifies have the formula, not have the formula in the book.

I think something for Quick Alchemy or Adv Alchemy does mention requiring the formulas in the book.
yet. it does not specify ever needing the book. (meaning. you don't have to take out the book for either adv or quick. just has to exist. We know this due to Quick Alchemy's requirement line not specifying the book but specifying others)

At some point I'll go read through stuff again and look it up. This was just from my memory

also i haven't reference the tons of faq/erratta
=========

the bit about casters and spell points, was my assumption since you specified casters, and as far as I know, that's the only point pool they had~ so just figured I'd include that detail incase

[Ed Reppert]

I think that when you buy a formula, it's on a scroll or parchment, or engraved on a plaque or something. Same if someone gives it to you. I can see not needing the book, or to reference a written formula, for advanced alchemy. I do agree it could be made more clear.

[Grave Knight]

Do wish that Empowered Bomb could work on normally crafted bombs. I get they wanted to prevent people from kill the dragon by just throwing endless level 7 bombs at it or something, but would be nice to just have a stockpile of bombs in a bag of holding.

[Ed Reppert]

You can have a stockpile of bombs in a bag of holding, but they'd all be level 1 and not infused.

Can you infuse a bomb that already exists, or does it have to be infused as you create it?

[Natan Linggod 327]

I was under the impression that creating a bomb with your "magic touch" is what infuses it, so it has to be done on the fly and not to a premade bomb.

Sidenote: I find it odd and a bit annoying that oils, dusts and salves aren't alchemical items.

[shroudb]

Ed Reppert wrote:

You can have a stockpile of bombs in a bag of holding, but they'd all be level 1 and not infused.

Can you infuse a bomb that already exists, or does it have to be infused as you create it?

No.

Infused is given during creation of the item and expenditure of the RP.

[Rules Artificer]

Is there a reason for bombs being the only alchemical items that don't scale into higher levels?
I don't get why bombs have to stay at level 1 and only Alchemist can boost them.
Why not just have higher level bombs that do more damage but are more expensive?
Price them like Necklace of Fireball beads.
Alchemists can make them for free (for themselves during the day) anyway.

[Grave Knight]

Hm. Is there anything that says we can't apply Potency Runes to bombs? They are technically considered weapons. Just be a pretty expensive way to have a stockpile of powerful bombs.

[Zwordsman]

You can. They are a martial weapon.

That'd be throwing away so much money.

[shroudb]

Grave Knight wrote:

Hm. Is there anything that says we can't apply Potency Runes to bombs? They are technically considered weapons. Just be a pretty expensive way to have a stockpile of powerful bombs.

in order to "stockpile" you'd have to use non-invested bombs, so their damage would be even lower than your simple invested bombs and they would cost an arm and a leg to even do that.

but "raw" wise, there are no "expert" quality bombs (in the book, up to GM if you can somehow craft them), and you can only use +1 potency rune on "expert" quality weapons.

[Ed Reppert]

Some additions, with the latest changes to alchemy.

Alchemists create "infused" alchemical items. No one else can do that. But a non-alchemist can create any alchemical item (as long as he has the formula for it). What's the difference between an infused item and a non-infused item, other than that the infused item goes inert after 24 hours? Can a non-alchemist create a bunch of bombs and carry them around for months before using them, where the alchemist must use his bombs within the day he creates them? Same for other alchemical items. Do non-infused items still require RPs to activate?

[Edge93]

With the infused items, even though you now spend reagents instead of resonance to make them they still do not cost resonance to use for yourself OR your allies. So that's been pretty nice.

Alchemist-made items are only infused if made with Advanced Alchemy or Quick Alchemy, and yes those do go inert. But they can still make non-infused items in downtime like anyone else.

And now that Empower Bombs has been removed in favor of just having multiple strengths of bomb, they can now make better than level 1 bombs in downtime to have a backup stock, though it costs more now.

[Ed Reppert]

I guess I don't understand the difference between infused and non-infused alchemical items, then. Could Joe the Barbarian learn alchemical crafting and then create a working Bestial Mutagen, for example? (Assuming he has the formula for it.)