Light Armor & Powered Armor - Upgrade Interactions

[Das_Creeper]

I apologize if this has been covered, but after searching the forums for a couple days I wasn't able to find a comprehensive thread/answers. I am planning on staring my first Starfinder Society character and was looking for some clarification on how light armor (LA) and powered armor (PA) interact.

The rules state that you can wear LA while inside PA, though you only gain certain benefits of each (best AC, worst armor check/dex bonus etc). It does not mention how the upgrades loaded into each armor interact. My question is then, are armor upgrades installed in LA active while you wear it inside PA (ie do the armor upgrades stack)? Are there any limitations on how they interact (ie if you have a jet pack installed in LA, would you be able to use it while inside PA)? Finally, does proficiency with PA also make you proficient with its attacks (as PA has its own damage value).

I am under the impression that the armor upgrades do stack, and that there are not limitations on how they interact (you can benefit from LA upgrades while using PA, for example the fly speed from jet pack). I think you would have to have Improved Unarmed Strike to threaten with the PA weapons but my current GM made the argument that you are proficient with the armor attacks as you are proficient with the armor. In either case I'd prefer to not go by my "gut" feeling and see if there was an "official" answer.

Thanks!

[Shaudius]

No official errata yet as far as I'm aware, but the question has been asked.

[Tryn]

I would ask myself "Why does this rule was made? What is the purpose this rule?"

There are two possible reasons for this rule:

1. This rule is added so that characters who have to leave their PowerArmor (e.g. because it runs out of power) are not being defense less, but at least have a light armor.

2. This rule is added, so players are able to stack even more modules, gimmicks etc.

Reason 2 isn't logical, because if this was the purpose of this rule, they could have simply add more module slots to the Power Armors.
So this will left us with reason 1 and based on this the "light armor under the Power Armor" should be a "backup system" for the character and backup systems only spring into power when the main system (the PA) are down.
So based on this I would say: "You can't use any benefits of the light armor (no modules, no special whatever) as long as you are in the Power Armor", the "best AC and worst ACP" is a pseudo-logical exception from this rule.

This is how I would rule it and also why.
Most rules questions are very easy answered once you ask "what is the logical reason behind this rule". ;)

P.S.: Also it's kind of logical that LA Modules don't work inside a PA, ever tried to fire a jump jet within a coffin?^^

[Shaudius]

The problem with that line of reasoning is that if it was only meant as a backup why does light armor provide a EAC/KAC boost if its EAC/KAC is higher than the powered armor.

You say its a psuedo-logical exception, but why is it more psuedo-logical than saying that the upgrades which could logically function (so things that don't require the armor to be on top) also function?

[IvoMG]

I agree with Tryn but, i do belive that some modules not all, can be used.
Since he mentioned a coffin, lets follow that example:
The rules are saying that if the coffin is hit, you take damage. If you armor is better then the coffin armor, it will soak that damage instead the coffin. Therefore an explanation to why use EAC/KAC from your armor.
Following the same argument, you realy can't use a jump jet, it would be illogical, nor could you bennefit from Load lifter. Logicaly speaking, it's not your body but you PA.
Since is the player taking the damage inside de cockpit i would supose that Force field would still be functional (but not being able to protect PA or weapons).
Following Tryn's way is less troublesome. "simply, you can't thei are off-line."

[Ridiculon]

There is another wrinkle as well, what if an Android is wearing light armor and powered armor? does his built in armor mod function?

Does it even function normally under light/heavy armor? seems like a pretty useless bonus if the majority of the classes (the armor wearing ones) cancel it out.

[Pantshandshake]

Honestly, aside from certain mods which only work with light, heavy or power armor respectively, the rules are silent, which means mods work regardless of where they are and what the character is wearing.

A GM can certainly rule that using a jet pack mounted to your light armor while in power armor wouldn't work, and I would kind of expect that ruling as a common sense sort of deal. But aside from what the rules actually, specifically prohibit, everything is a house rule as long as there's no errata or a FAQ entry.

[Ridiculon]

Actually I just noticed that the Android slot has a specific exception called out that allows the slot to function under physical armor. This seems to imply that without that exception it wouldn't function, looks like the default is that only the outer-most armor's mods work.

[Pantshandshake]

I don’t have my book handy, and I’ll grant that the wording could be vastly different, but the SRD says this about the android upgrade slot.

Upgrade Slot
Androids have a single armor upgrade slot in their bodies. Regardless of whether androids are wearing physical armor, they can use this slot to install any one armor upgrade that could be installed into light armor.

That doesn’t address usage of said mod depending on what you’re wearing, it seems to be saying that it’s an armor mod slot that’s not dependent on actual armor.

[Das_Creeper]

Thanks for the replies, fingers crossed that they clarify it!

[BigNorseWolf]

Quote:

I am under the impression that the armor upgrades do stack, and that there are not limitations on how they interact (you can benefit from LA upgrades while using PA, for example the fly speed from jet pack).

I wouldn't expect many DMs to agree with that sentiment. If the jet pack can't pick up the power armor, why can it pick up the power armor just because its plugged in to your tightie whities?

[Ridiculon]

cause they're level 10 ultra delux tightie whities

[BigNorseWolf]

Ridiculon wrote:

cause they're level 10 ultra delux tightie whities

Oh well in THAT case...

[Robert Gooding]

Well upgrades have a listing of what armor types they work in, so logically only modules compatible with power armor would be usable from your light armor while using both....so no jet pack but you could run a shield from inside

[Ravingdork]

I don't think a blanket rule is the way to go. This really should be left up to GMs on a case by case basis.

For example, infrared sensors installed in your light armor (or android slot) should probably give you darkvision whether or not you are inside power armor. Activating a jetpack inside the powered armor, on the other hand, should probably just give you a bad headache.

[Damanta]

With the exception of the Starguard (10 bulk, gives you 30 strength) and the Celerity Rigging (4 bulk) the powered armors are too heavy to be lifted by the jetpack/forcepack.
None of the others give you a strength rating that puts you below encumbered while wearing it or are actually light enough for natural strength to be unencumbered with.

[Das_Creeper]

After reading through the rules again, I am in agreement. Only those upgrades that are able to be installed in "Any" armor are able to be active on LA while inside PA. Thanks for the discussion, still hope they come out with an official ruling so one can be applied universally!

Any thought on whether having the PA feat grants proficiency with its unarmed attacks? My GMs reasoning is that when you gain a weapon proficiency feat you are proficient with those weapons, and by gaining the PA feat you become proficient with its attacks. I had not thought about it until he said something but having a d10 Power Fist has been really fun!