I have broached the subject of an all Vigilante rebellion game and the players are in. I watched 3 Zorro movies in a row and was considering Chelliax for a setting when I then stumbled across Hell's Rebels.
I think if I used the adventure path it would probably need quite a bit of adjustments so I hesitated to out right make the purchase. But the reviews I read seemed quite complimentary.
So my question-
How much of the structure of the path could I keep if the characters were all part of one of the noble houses? Would it make sense for the party to consist of all Vigilantes? I have 3-4 players and I think I can get enough character variation through the archetypes to keep things interesting. Any general advice for such an endeavor?
It would work very well with only vigilantes, in my opinion. In fact, it might work better with the story than other party compositions, since it would remove some inconsistencies and plot holes in the AP that you then wouldn't need to solve in other ways.
As for the PCs all being nobility, that might work as well, but bear in mind that the AP supposes that you gather the support of the lower classes well before you try to enlist the higher ones. But there's several NPCs at hand to help the party understand the way this sandbox AP should be best approached.
Thanks for the heads up.
I went ahead and ordered 1-4 and found the map folio at a used bookstore. I and going to try and tweak things a bit into a more swashbucklery game. Can't wait...
As for being Nobles, you have a lot of good choices with that. Just because you have one house as your base, doesn't mean that the others will leap to your cause until it's time. There's also one house that gets taken out just prior to the start of the AP.
You'll have loads of fun. Take a look through the boards--there's a ton of advice on how to tweak it and what to watch out for. And don't be afraid to post with questions about adaptations--we'll be glad to help out.
I've got a noble scion vigilante at my table. It's a treat.
Ok! I have the books and have been reading. I have also been into the forum here. A couple things...
roguerouge- The post on Magic Mouth/False Flags under the sticky for Hells Bright Shadow was gold. I wish we had a sticky for campaign suggestions like that. Having to sift through a zillion posts looking for these things is tough.
As an idea to make things a bit more swashbucklery- I may end up wanting to run the rebellion as more of a side venture where the characters are the 'Batman' figure. So... The rebellion would on occasion call upon the characters for direct support but not even they know the secret identities. I am not sure this is a great idea.
If it's an all-vigilante party, you have a couple of options with that approach. One would be simply that everyone's secret identity is in the rebellion, but they're not "out" to their co-workers for various good reasons. Like, I have to protect my family/spouse from being a target if my peer revolutionaries get captured. You know the drill. There's a ton of comic book heroes who are detectives as their day job, so I see no reason why you couldn't adapt that to revolutionaries. That way, the PCs are in the hideout for the early mystery. You'd have to set up some over ground rules for your table so that the focus is on the AP and the rebellion, not focusing on who can uncover who's secret identity. That should be a fun sideline, not dominating table time.
As for the PC vigilantes not being in the rebellion at all? I'd say that goes against the core experience and coolest part of the AP: you get to run a revolution from level one. Maybe if the PCs had a second character who was an NPC class (expert, aristocrat, commoner, adept, etc.) who was running the revolution?
The AP-as-written (but not as adapted at tables) already has a problem with how to get missions started without having randos track down the top secret revolution base and leaders to give them their quests. I wonder if this would exacerbate that issue.
Although the constant failure of the revolution's leaders might become... more comic than you'd like.
I have tabled the 'rebellion manager' idea until speaking with the group tomorrow. I thought I would just ask the group how much they want to be involved in day to day rebellion details.
I do have another question...
I am into the second book and find myself wondering why teiflings are reviled in a world where devils are revered. I am considering switching teifling references to halflings. Halfings are already associated with slavery within the Chelaxian society. They seem to be gypsy-like in that they don't have a central power structure and individually they are physically unimposing.
I even think teiflings should be a bit higher in stature, at least with regard to the Asmodeon church. I know Devils hate some other beings from the lower planes (like Demons). I just think the visual nature of a teifling heritage could be a twisted into a political/social boon.
I am into the second book and find myself wondering why teiflings are reviled in a world where devils are revered. I am considering switching teifling references to halflings. Halfings are already associated with slavery within the Chelaxian society. They seem to be gypsy-like in that they don't have a central power structure and individually they are physically unimposing.
I even think teiflings should be a bit higher in stature, at least with regard to the Asmodeon church. I know Devils hate some other beings from the lower planes (like Demons). I just think the visual nature of a teifling heritage could be a twisted into a political/social boon.
Well a couple of reasons. First, racism isn't rational. Why were the Irish regarded as subhuman by white America, to the point that there were frequent "No Irish Need Apply" signs in Boston? In the interests of avoiding politics on this forum, I'm going to skip using further examples to prove the point. Second, Tieflings don't just come from devils: they're also spawned from demons, div, daemons, kytons, Demodads, Rakshasa, Quippoths, and Oni. Third, even ones from devils could be considered as undermining the official line of House Thrune: that they are in charge in Cheliax and not Asmodeus.
Thanks for the response!
You and I are in agreement with regard to your first point. Maybe I tend to over rationalize things, but I like to be able to tell players why people think the way they do. I feel like it fleshes out the world. I do agree people are rarely rational about the subject in the real world...
Your second and third points are excellent as well.
I remember reading somewhere that the attitude towards Tieflings is because they're a product of a human sleeping with an outsider and therefore are shameful to the family as it shows that someone in the family's history gave in to carnal desire with something that it should be controlling instead of lusting after.
Edit: James Jacobs says it HERE but I'm sure I've read it in a book somewhere.
If I come across it I'll cite the source for you.
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It would work very well with only vigilantes, in my opinion. In fact, it might work better with the story than other party compositions, since it would remove some inconsistencies and plot holes in the AP that you then wouldn't need to solve in other ways.
As for the PCs all being nobility, that might work as well, but bear in mind that the AP supposes that you gather the support of the lower classes well before you try to enlist the higher ones. But there's several NPCs at hand to help the party understand the way this sandbox AP should be best approached.
That said, the AP devotes a lot more attention to winning the support of the aristocracy than of workers, artisans, or the petit-bourgeoisie. The third estate, as it were, is very much a background element. The nobles you interact with are barely characterized in most cases, but that's more than the poor get.
True, dat. BUT, if you ask us about that topic on these boards, you'll get tons of support from us. There's already stuff on revolutionary theory from zimmerwald1915, and I can chip in some characters and other advice.
Note that many Milanites I Kintargo never get to meet one another, so it's safe to say that an organized body doesn't need to be a pool of mutual friends. I have a vigilante in my current game and I will say that the secret identify being kept against the other allies feels forced after a while. Everyone at the table knows and as both personas become more important to the faction it gets obvious that the person is living a double life. You're better off giving the vigilantes better reasons to be disguised. For example, you could have an Aulorian Nobleman actually a strong critic of Thrune (Book two would be fun this way, trust me)
I will say that at my table, it's become a race between the disguise skill of the vigilante and the sense motive and perception of two other PCs.
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True, dat. BUT, if you ask us about that topic on these boards, you'll get tons of support from us. There's already stuff on revolutionary theory from zimmerwald1915, and I can chip in some characters and other advice.
I want you to know I find it immensely funny that, having made a criticism of the way the theme of Hell's Rebels is conveyed, I was directed to myself for ideas on how to address it.
Note that many Milanites I Kintargo never get to meet one another, so it's safe to say that an organized body doesn't need to be a pool of mutual friends.
I question the use of "organized body" to describe the Milanite underground in Kintargo at the time of Hell's Rebels. They don't communicate with either each other or the wider world, and seem not to do anything.
For example, you could have an Aulorian Nobleman actually a strong critic of Thrune (Book two would be fun this way, trust me)
:thinking emoji:
I will say that at my table, it's become a race between the disguise skill of the vigilante and the sense motive and perception of two other PCs.
Only a matter of time, eh? What point in the story has your game reached?
True, dat. BUT, if you ask us about that topic on these boards, you'll get tons of support from us. There's already stuff on revolutionary theory from zimmerwald1915, and I can chip in some characters and other advice.I want you to know I find it immensely funny that, having made a criticism of the way the theme of Hell's Rebels is conveyed, I was directed to myself for ideas on how to address it.
Just to be clear, because tone is so hard online, I'm not criticizing your take on the over-focus on the aristocracy in this AP--I totally agree with you.
I question the use of "organized body" to describe the Milanite underground in Kintargo at the time of Hell's Rebels. They don't communicate with either each other or the wider world, and seem not to do anything.
This is so true! I'm guessing it's so that the PCs stay at the center of the story, but some info on their background here would have been helpful.
Only a matter of time, eh? What point in the story has your game reached?
Mid-book three. Her PC became hugely drunk during an undercover mission against the Sarinis and had to reveal her ID to another PC to deal with it. He's kept her secret though.
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Just to be clear, because tone is so hard online, I'm not criticizing your take on the over-focus on the aristocracy in this AP--I totally agree with you.True, dat. BUT, if you ask us about that topic on these boards, you'll get tons of support from us. There's already stuff on revolutionary theory from zimmerwald1915, and I can chip in some characters and other advice.I want you to know I find it immensely funny that, having made a criticism of the way the theme of Hell's Rebels is conveyed, I was directed to myself for ideas on how to address it.
I wasn't suggesting otherwise. I was, as I said, merely amused at being referred to myself for advice - I imagined you replied without checking the name of the poster, and noticed only after it was too late to edit.
Why does this board restrict posters' ability to edit, anyway?
Mid-book three.
Not related to the topic at all, but this is as good of a place as any to ask:
roguerouge and Zimmerwald1915 -- When did you two each start your games and, Zimmerwald1915, what point are you currently at?|
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Mid-book three.Not related to the topic at all, but this is as good of a place as any to ask:
roguerouge and Zimmerwald1915 -- When did you two each start your games and, Zimmerwald1915, what point are you currently at?
I have never GM'd this AP. I have started to play it twice over PbP, but never gotten past Book 2.
Given this, I have spent entirely too much time thinking about it.
June of 2017. 28 sessions of about 3.5 hours. 4 players.
Hunh. I had figured you two were further into it. (And I'm shocked you aren't running it, Zim!!) I don't really know why I had that impression; I just did for some reason.
Mine ended up taking just under a year (Feb 4th, '18 - Jan 1st, '19), but our sessions were typically 6 hours long (or so) and was nearly weekly. 40 sessions over 11 months, 4 players.
Hunh. I had figured you two were further into it. (And I'm shocked you aren't running it, Zim!!) I don't really know why I had that impression; I just did for some reason.
Mine ended up taking just under a year (Feb 4th, '18 - Jan 1st, '19), but our sessions were typically 6 hours long (or so) and was nearly weekly. 40 sessions over 11 months, 4 players.
Two of the players have small children, that's how it goes.
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Two of the players have small children, that's how it goes.Hunh. I had figured you two were further into it. (And I'm shocked you aren't running it, Zim!!) I don't really know why I had that impression; I just did for some reason.
Mine ended up taking just under a year (Feb 4th, '18 - Jan 1st, '19), but our sessions were typically 6 hours long (or so) and was nearly weekly. 40 sessions over 11 months, 4 players.
Give us the child for five years, and it will be a Silver Raven forever.