2h Weapons and Slam attacks

[Megatron777]

Has it ever been clarified that a natural Slam attack is done with a hand if you're a humanoid? Why can't a vampire make a full attack with a greatsword and then use his slam as a secondary? A kick, elbow, or headbutt can't be a slam attack?

[blahpers]

The rules are a bit schizophrenic about slam attacks. The closest thing to a clarification is in (of all things) a magus FAQ:

Ultimate Magic FAQ wrote:

Magus: When using spell combat, can the weapon in my other hand be an unarmed strike or a natural weapon?

Yes, so long as the weapon is a light or one-handed melee weapon and is associated with that hand. For example, unarmed strikes, claws, and slams are light melee weapons associated with a hand, and therefore are valid for use with spell combat. A tail slap is not associated with a hand, and therefore is not valid for use with spell combat.

This is clearly nonsense when applied as a more general rule, as many, many creatures can make slam attacks without hands, arms, or even limbs at all.

The closest I can come to an inferred general rule is that slams are usually either associated with an actual limb, a pseudo-limb, or the entire body. Creatures with arms (e.g., vampires, some giants, marilith) generally use arms to make slam attacks. Creatures without arms generally either use pseudo-limbs or their entire body (e.g., most oozes, many swim-speed or just plain large animals, elementals). Since the vampire template is limited* to humanoids, it's most consistent to associate a slam with an arm.

Strangely, some creatures with two arms only get one slam attack. This is the case with vampires, though I've seen some Paizo-published vampires that inexplicably get more than one slam. I keep picturing Pathfinder vampires as though they were fiddler crabs with one big beefy arm. : /

* based on the descriptive text rather than the "creating a <template>" text

[merpius]

Most vampires are this guy, clearly. :D

[thaX]

Think of slams as more of a shoulder thrust, knocking the target back a bit and catching them off balance.

Likely, with monsters as well as characters, slams are used instead of the weapon. One would either use one or the other, but not both at the same time. It would be considered a natural weapon, but is limited by what one does with their hands/limbs. (same as a claw as mentioned in the FAQ upthread)

That being said, other GM's may rule differently and this subject could have been discussed before on different occasions.