As far as I know there are only 2 apps that Paizo offers -- the crit deck and the fumble deck in app form.
I'm curious why there aren't many, many more.
Paizo is wonderfully active in giving the player base a multitude of source material, options, toys, and tools to make their Pathfinder experience as awesome as it can be. I put forth that there is money to be made and great tools to be offered in the form of iphone/ipod//ipad/android apps.
I currently use several independent apps for a variety of things that are immensely helpful in-game at my home tabletop sessions.
Those are just a few examples of apps that I believe Paizo could duplicate (and make better, streamline, or expand upon) that thousands of us hungry players would happily give our money for. Paizo, let's get this in the works! There is a untapped revenue stream that you are ignoring completely (your incentive!) that will make your customers' games more streamlined and awesome. (our incentive!)
Thoughts?
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Some examples of apps might be:
-A bestiary index
-A comprehensive spellbook app that includes ALL Paizo spells, organized by class, level, school, etc... one that auto-updates with new released material...one that has a 'saveable' spellbook feature for individual characters.
-An initiative tracker. (Paizo already offers the physical magnet one, why not make an app for everyone with a tablet?)
-A character builder (something akin to HeroLab, but maybe on a lesser scale. Could be as simple as a clickable character sheet with built-in math for AC, to-hit, , CMD/CMD, and saving throw calculations)
-A comprehensive 'Feats' app, with breakdowns and suggestions based on classes, class feature interaction, feat trees, etc.
That isn't really a valid problem in my opinion, as evidenced by the myriad existing apps designed to streamline the Pathfinder experience. Making an app compatible for both formats is a hurdle, nothing more.
I am mostly satisfied with the apps I've chosen, but I felt inclined to bring the notion to the forums because I believe Paizo could do a better job while also being able to include trademarked names, art, and materials.
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Simple answer is Paizo isn't a software company.
Developing apps of the sort you are talking about requires software people, who are dedicated to that task. You want them writing good code, and quite frankly a good coder will typically only get about 10 lines of good code out a day.
In addition to the cost sink that is there is also security concerns: How are you updating, how are you checking for valid copies to update, how do you monetize it securely, plus compatibility issues across the board and I'm only scratching the barest surface of the problems involved -- licensing, lawyers for copyrights and product protection as well as making sure your product is legit out the gate, and on and on and on...
Are there answers for all these problems? Absolutely. Are they easy? Somewhat for a software company.
Is that something that a publisher of what is still essentially a paper product is going to be specialized in and willing to shell out for?
No.
It's rather telling that Fallout Shelter which has been available for months on apple systems is only now coming out on droid systems; in fact it is rather common for ports from one of the systems to the other to take several months (to years) before being completed.
Understand that most of the apps also have to be designed for completely different hardware set ups. Your phones and tablets run on RISC as opposed to labtops and PCs CISC and that makes all manner of difference in how you program the app. Current apps will have to run on both (for windows 10, windows phones, droid phones, and apple phones).
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TL:DR -- it's much more complicated than you appreciate apparently.
What you consider "Not a valid problem" is much bigger than you think, and isn't even the biggest problem involved.
I seem to remember this coming up before, though it was quite some time ago.
As I recall, vic gave a reasonably official answer along the lines suggested above: they're not interested in branching out into a whole new industry (he probably used the phrase "currently we have no plans for..."). He did indicate that they'd be open to licensing deals with established companies with a decent history.
there are only 2 apps that Paizo offers
I'm curious why there aren't many, many more.
I currently use several independent apps
Trimmed for clarity. First, a big part of the reason is what you just said. You currently already have apps that do what you want. There's no real incentive for Paizo to get into the market when it's already satisfied by a multitude of free software.
That isn't really a valid problem in my opinion, as evidenced by the myriad existing apps designed to streamline the Pathfinder experience. Making an app compatible for both formats is a hurdle, nothing more.
Yeah, no. An auto repair shop shouldn't take the evidence that there are available "what's wrong with my car?" apps as cause to put down the wrench and write some software. Mechanics aren't software developers, and neither are publishers (regardless of what talents individual specific employees at the garage or publisher might have). If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing right, and Paizo doesn't have the background or infrastructure to do this right, even if it was worthwhile, which I've pointed out above it isn't.
Trimmed for clarity. First, a big part of the reason is what you just said. You currently already have apps that do what you want. There's no real incentive for Paizo to get into the market when it's already satisfied by a multitude of free software.
The very purpose of this thread was inquiring about the viability of Paizo adding some more 'official' apps to this pool of independently written apps. I was attempting to highlight my relative dissatisfaction with the available software, in a roundabout sort of way. Also many of the good apps are not free, further indicating that there is money to be made by presenting an alternative.
I haven't seen a game in at least 5 years that didn't have multiple players at the table with a tablet and/or smartphone, using apps on either or both to streamline aspects of game play. It seems to me like a niche waiting to be filled -- a niche that will only get larger as the years go by and tablets become even more affordable and integral.
Yeah, no. An auto repair shop shouldn't take the evidence that there are available "what's wrong with my car?" apps as cause to put down the wrench and write some software. Mechanics aren't software developers, and neither are publishers (regardless of what talents individual specific employees at the garage or publisher might have). If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing right, and Paizo doesn't have the background or infrastructure to do this right, even if it was worthwhile, which I've pointed out above it isn't.
What an oddly snarky response.
I did not suggest that Paizo "put down their wrench". Companies expand their horizons all the time, and they make partnerships with other companies. Paizo isn't a miniatures company either, but their logo is slapped alongside Wizkids' on the boxes of miniatures that many thousands of us purchase with regularity. It seems a little presumptuous to discard the notion out of hand, just because they're not a software company.
Apps are big, big business and they are not going away anytime soon.
That said, as stated by Steve Geddes, if "Vic" has stated they're not interested, then that is that. I'm just one voice among a million, so maybe I'm overestimating the potential. It is entirely possible that Paizo has already conducted surveys/studies to gauge interest and have acted according the results.
TL:DR -- it's much more complicated than you appreciate apparently.
What you consider "Not a valid problem" is much bigger than you think, and isn't even the biggest problem involved.
Maybe, but complicated =/= not worth doing.
The very purpose of this thread was inquiring about the viability of Paizo adding some more 'official' apps to this pool of independently written apps. I was attempting to highlight my relative dissatisfaction with the available software, in a roundabout sort of way. Also many of the good apps are not free, further indicating that there is money to be made by presenting an alternative.
You expressed yourself well; I got that. Just in case I've missed the mark, I was trying to point out that the market is not one without competition. It's an uphill battle to enter a market that has had years of developers producing products of - admittedly - variable quality. It's not a given that there's any significant money left on the table to justify any development investment. Not when things like Masterwork Tools (Android) and web browsers to d20pfsrd.com and Archives of Nethys are already present (and pretty darned awesome, and free).
I haven't seen a game in at least 5 years that didn't have multiple players at the table with a tablet and/or smartphone, using apps on either or both to streamline aspects of game play. It seems to me like a niche waiting to be filled -- a niche that will only get larger as the years go by and tablets become even more affordable and integral.
Yup, I've got that going on too. Every game has some digital aids because different tools result different response times. Sometimes hardcovers are faster, sometimes not so much. Sometimes apps streamline, sometimes frankly they don't. But - again - the fact that almost everyone is currently using these tools illustrates that the market is already a mature one. If existing apps were truly poor (on average), people wouldn't be using them.
What an oddly snarky response.
I did not suggest that Paizo "put down their wrench".
Sounds like a miscommunication here. I didn't suggest that either, at all. On the contrary, I'm specifically saying that they shouldn't put down the wrench and start... oh... making pizzas on the side. There's no synergy between software development and publishing.
Companies expand their horizons all the time, and they make partnerships with other companies.
True. And that expansion frequently kills companies. And there are already plenty of speculations that Paizo has "too many irons in the fire". Investing in a whole new company* - because that's what the software development division would be - is a large investment for a questionable return.
* Temporarily disregarding that Paizo clearly has an internal IT team who are quite capable of doing web and line-of-business development.
Paizo isn't a miniatures company either, but their logo is slapped alongside Wizkids' on the boxes of miniatures that many thousands of us purchase with regularity. It seems a little presumptuous to discard the notion out of hand, just because they're not a software company.
Yeah, and I grant that I've bought a couple cases, but I hope you've seen that the partnership is absolutely not without its pitfalls. There have been a couple sets that have had QA problems, and there isn't anyone who thinks the returns/replacement service from WizKids is actually... acceptable. Bottom line is that the product line is good - again, I buy lots of them - but it's not quite up to Paizo's reputation for quality-control, and it's nowhere near their frankly epic customer-service standards.
Honestly, I think discarding the notion out of hand because they're not a software company is sensible, not presumptuous. Just my opinion, but while a landscaping business might possibly be able to sell X units of a lawn-maintenance-tracking app, it seems (to me) a pretty safe bet that the landscaping company management don't have the background to do it right. It's what you don't know that'll kill you. Rocket science looks easy from your living room. When you don't know an industry, you literally don't know what questions to ask.
Apps are big, big business and they are not going away anytime soon.
Meh, and agreed. Nobody's getting rich on RPG apps. CandyCrush and DancingPigs and FartFartButtFart, sure. Basically, the kinds of apps that make real money aren't the kind we're talking about.
That said, as stated by Steve Geddes, if "Vic" has stated they're not interested, then that is that. I'm just one voice among a million, so maybe I'm overestimating the potential. It is entirely possible that Paizo has already conducted surveys/studies to gauge interest and have acted according the results.
Dude, I totally get it. You want a Paizo-branded, Paizo-quality, Paizo-issued set of applications. Know what? Sure, so do I. Difference is I really, honestly don't think that Paizo (currently) could or should produce one. We're in a similar wishful-thinking position, only we're interpreting market forces and manpower skills sets and return on investment and so on differently. That's all. Just so we're clear, your idea isn't bad or wrong, I just don't think it's likely to work, for the reasons I've tried to express. (Snarkless, as it happens.)
(Snarkless, as it happens.)
When someone starts off a sentence with "Yeah, no" all I see is snark.
Nevertheless I appreciate most of what you had to say.
Paizo isn't a miniatures company either, but their logo is slapped alongside Wizkids' on the boxes of miniatures that many thousands of us purchase with regularity. It seems a little presumptuous to discard the notion out of hand, just because they're not a software company.
Apps are big, big business and they are not going away anytime soon.
That said, as stated by Steve Geddes, if "Vic" has stated they're not interested, then that is that. I'm just one voice among a million, so maybe I'm overestimating the potential. It is entirely possible that Paizo has already conducted surveys/studies to gauge interest and have acted according the results.
I think they'd love to get into this in the same way they've got into miniatures. If there was an established "app publisher" (is that a thing?) who approached them with a workable plan I can't see why they'd say no.
There is an app being produced for the card game (with a single player computer game hopefully down the track, as I understand it) so they're not averse to the idea.
I suspect RPGs aren't big enough to attract the attention of the big software companies. There's probably far more certain ways for them to make more money.
My hazy recollection of Vic's comment (Vic Wertz, co-owner of Paizo and chief technical officer) was all about their skill set and where they wanted to focus their resources - not about the value of the idea itself.