| Danzibe1989 |
I love the idea of the druid. The ability to transform yourself into a beast, elemental, plant, vermin, giant, anything you can think of and turn into you can. You embody the creature heart and soul and instill the fear of the forest in your enemies who dare lay a finger on your domains.......
To turn into an Alraune and use her special abilities....wait...whats that? Druid wildshape can't do that? Because its a spell? *reads* Well f*$& this is ass! The only thing good about this class IS the idea of it then. You transform into a pale imitation of the creature, not the creature entirely. So if you end up picking something, it better not have cool abilities because that's wasted. All sorts of cool things you could turn into are thrown out the window because Wildshape follows the Shape spells. WHY is Wildshape so garbage?!? What was so bad about letting you have creature abilities??
| DeathlessOne |
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
One thinks your expectation is too high and One points you towards the Arcane caster classes. Druids (with very few excepts) Wildshape into Animals, Plants, and Elementals. They work with Nature, not seek to warp what is into what it isn’t.
Just because the ability does not do what YOU specifically want does not make it “garbage”.
| VoodistMonk |
If you want to be wild, build a wild character... don't just take the shape of it.
If you want your character to have special abilities, then build a character that has those abilities... don't rely on stealing from other shapes.
Maybe the druid class isn't for you. Or maybe you should explore archetypes of the class that focus on other things. Either way, just because the class ability doesn't live up to your standards, does not mean it is garbage.
Maybe the Shifter is something that you can work with. You have options other than druid, you know?
| Irontruth |
Part of the issue is that the Druid is a big amalgam of concepts, and instead of focusing on one concept of what it means to be a magically trained character who follows nature, it kind of incorporates every idea of a magically trained character who follows nature.
You get to transform into animals.
You get full caster abilities, and some of the most unique spells in the game (some of which is limiting, but at other times it means you have a massive niche).
You get a ton of special abilities.
You get a special companion.
Regardless of what you want to focus on, you get ALL THE THINGS.
Wildshape on it's own is not a super impressive ability for the Druid, but it's still quite powerful, especially in combination with all the other things the class can do.
Weirdo
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Because that would limit monster design severely, as many monster types would have to be designed with the "hey we need to consider what will happen if a Druid gets this ability" caveat.
This. Wild Shape doesn't give you all the abilities of the thing you turn into because the designers want to be able to make, for example, a CR 13 Large size plant with special abilities that would be overpowered if given to a 10th-level druid.
It's still a fantastic ability. Being able to turn into a huge water elemental with +8 Con, DR 5/-, and immunity to bleed, sneak attack and crits has literally saved my druid's life. At least twice.
And that's not counting the time I helped overthrow an evil regime by turning into a sacred white raven...
Slyme
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Just because you don't understand the ability or how to properly use it, does not make it garbage.
Go look up some of the insane octopus natural attacks based tentacle monster of doom druid builds that get like 10 strong melee attacks per round and just run in and murder entire combats.
Or the flying air elemental caster builds who hide in a cloud 100+ft above the combat and rain down death and destruction.
Druids are a full progressions 9 level caster...that just so happens to also get the ability to shapechange...oh and they also get a pet to tank for them...and they can spontaneously convert their memorized spells into summons.
If you think Druids suck, maybe you need to go learn how to play the game.
| Danzibe1989 |
Just because you don't understand the ability or how to properly use it, does not make it garbage.
Go look up some of the insane octopus natural attacks based tentacle monster of doom druid builds that get like 10 strong melee attacks per round and just run in and murder entire combats.
Or the flying air elemental caster builds who hide in a cloud 100+ft above the combat and rain down death and destruction.
Druids are a full progressions 9 level caster...that just so happens to also get the ability to shapechange...oh and they also get a pet to tank for them...and they can spontaneously convert their memorized spells into summons.
If you think Druids suck, maybe you need to go learn how to play the game.
You don't understand the point I was making, clearly. I know full well the capabilities of every wildshape you can do, thats never been the issue. There are some things that are superior. woopeedoo. I meant the special abilities those creatures get. You don't get them, the things that make them unique. Because you don't, I think Wildshape is garbage *shrugs*
Gorbacz
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Slyme wrote:You don't understand the point I was making, clearly. I know full well the capabilities of every wildshape you can do, thats never been the issue. There are some things that are superior. woopeedoo. I meant the special abilities those creatures get. You don't get them, the things that make them unique. Because you don't, I think Wildshape is garbage *shrugs*Just because you don't understand the ability or how to properly use it, does not make it garbage.
Go look up some of the insane octopus natural attacks based tentacle monster of doom druid builds that get like 10 strong melee attacks per round and just run in and murder entire combats.
Or the flying air elemental caster builds who hide in a cloud 100+ft above the combat and rain down death and destruction.
Druids are a full progressions 9 level caster...that just so happens to also get the ability to shapechange...oh and they also get a pet to tank for them...and they can spontaneously convert their memorized spells into summons.
If you think Druids suck, maybe you need to go learn how to play the game.
And you don't understand that giving Druids access to any abilities creatures have would be imbalanced and that Druid is powerful enough with the wildshape as it is that boosting it in any way would make a tier 1 class even more powerful. Also, having Druids assume any abilities would terribly cripple monster design. I'm not sure how one can make either point clearer.
Weirdo
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It is certainly a shame that there are some interesting forms that are underwhelming in execution due to having unusual abilities that aren't covered by the shaping spells.
But when you weigh that problem against breaking either monster design or druid power levels, I think that Paizo did a pretty good job.
| Meirril |
Once upon a time, in 3.5, there was this little post titled "Help! My Wizards are Trolls 24 hours a day!". The summery was that it was unfair that casters that hit 9th level tended to spend all of their time polymorphed into something else that could possibly cast spells and had superior physical stats or some unusual power that was great for a caster.
This is where all the nerfs started for all of the shape changing abilities. Why? Because they are easy to abuse. If you don't have limitations on what you can get out of a polymorph effect you end up playing the stupidest game of rock-paper-spock-lizard-dynamite ever conceived.
If you don't like what wild shape gives you, find an archetype that trades it away. I'm sure you won't like it either, because the nerfed Wild shape in Pathfinder is still really good.