Crexis |
This is the first time playing not only an archer, but also a ranger.
What do you suggest for race, traits and feats?
What is the best to take for ranger combat styles? This is completely new to me, I'd imagine I'd take the archery style. If I do, I can choose one of the listed feats as a bonus feat at levels 2, 6, 10, 14 and 18. BUT I could also choose these feats at the odd levels of grabbing feats normally?
Recommendations on hunters bond?
For an archer ranger, what is the best way to setup my ability scores? Strength or Dex first? Do I use a composite bow for Str Dmg mod or is there another way to add dex to damage?
Look forward to some ranger/archer discussion
Mysterious Stranger |
Archery is a feat intensive combat style so you will need to use both bonus feats and regular feats to get what you need. Use the ranger bonus feats to skip prerequisites and get early access to feat. Make sure to grab point blank master as your 6th level bonus feat because you cannot get it with your regular feats.
Archery also has a ton of penalties so you want to maximize your DEX to get a good bonus to hit. You will also need a good STR for damage. Everyone needs CON and you need WIS to cast spells. INT does not need to be high but avoid dumping it as you will want skills. CHA can be dumped to your hearts content.
Which hunters bond you take is going to depend on the campaign. If the campaign allows you to use mounts regularly and animal companion is a good choice, but if it is a dungeon craw then the companions not as good.
For race you are going to want something with a bonus to DEX or a flexible bonus. Human is good for the extra feat and skill points. Half elf gives you low light vision and a bonus to perception. If your GM permits hobgoblins they make very good rangers. They get a bonus to both DEX and CON and +4 bonus to stealth and darkvision. But what really makes them good rangers is their favored class bonus. +1/4 to your favored enemy bonus can be extremely useful. If you are in a campaign where you know you will be fighting a certain type of creature this can be a huge advantage.
That brings up my last bit of advice. Choose your favored enemy very carefully. This is really what makes the ranger different. If you can count on getting your favored enemy bonus on a regular basis your character is going to be very powerful.
VoodistMonk |
Archery is the style you will want. When you pick your ranger combat style feats, try to grab the ones with the highest prerequisites, since you don't have to meet said prerequisites.
I usually take Rapid Shot at level 2, Improved Precise Shot at level 6, picking up Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot at odd levels to qualify for Manyshot at your nearest convenience. Point Blank Master at level 6 if your enemies are closing distance more than using cover. Some "clever" GM's use a lot of cover to throw miss chances at you.
Any race with darkvision. Half Orcs are good, they give you access to the Orc Horn Bow, which does 2D6 damage (same as a greatsword but it's a composite bow).
Strix can fly, have darkvision and low light vision, and a dexterity bonus. Flying reduces a lot of risks.
Pump up your Dex, and later use a belt of physical prowess to increase your strength and dexterity at the same time, to get the bonus from a composite bow. Put the Adaptive trait on your composite bow as soon as you can afford it.
My recommendation for hunter's bond? Trade it out in a useful archetype. But that's just me.
Take Humanoid (Human) as your first favored enemy. Undead as your second. Always pump up the first one you choose with the extra +2 when you pick your next one. You want your first favored enemy to be as high as possible when you get the Instant Enemy spell around level 11.
I advise trading favored terrain for the Infiltrator archetype, giving you a selection of survivability feats you can activate when needed... Take Iron Will at level 3, natural armor +2 at level 8 I think. It's been a minute since I have looked at Adaptations.
If you choose an archetype that gives up the Ranger Endurance Feat, probably best to be a Half Orc with the Shaman's Apprentice alternate racial feature, which gives you the Endurance Feat for free. And darkvision. And Orc Horn Bow. And the other alternative racial feature, Sacred Tattoo, for a +1 bonus to all saves. Which is almost always paired with the Fate's Favored trait, for a total of +2 to all saves. Out the gate, hard to beat. Might consider Well Provisioned Adventurer as your other trait, with the Wilderness Wanderer Package.
Scott Wilhelm |
There are the obvious: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Deadly Aim, Rapid Shot, Manyshot, and Far Shot. I think in that order.
Do I use a composite bow for Str Dmg mod
Well, yeah.
I like the Freebooter Ranger Archetype. Instead of the regular Favored Enemy, you pick 1 target. You and all your Allies get +1 attack and damage against that 1 guy until yo pick another.
I multiclass a lot. I like Grenadier Alchemist + Explosive Missile because exploding arrows are cool.
Take a level in the Living Monolith Prestige Class. You can Enlarge Person as a Swift Action. Your gear grows with you. You arrows would grow, too, but shrink again as soon as they leave the bow. Mark Seifter told me he got around this problem by carrying around a quiver of Size Large arrows, dropping them, Enlarging, and then picking his quiver back up after Enlarging.
There is the Ranger Spell Gravity Bow, making your Arrows inflict damage as if they were 1 size bigger. Enlarge Person + Gravity Bow will stack, so your Base Damage for your Arrows will be 3d6.
You can start taking levels in Zen Archer Monk, I suppose.
There is the Stabbing Shot Feat, which lets you shoot in melee. Elves only.
There are the Snap Shot Feats which let you make Attacks of Opportunity with your bow at a Range up to 10'.
Crexis |
What are the top 3 ability scores for the ranger in which order?
Do I go composite longbow +5? I know I use STR for damage mod, but do I use dex or str for attack(to hit) w this comp. longbow? Can I add magic damage to this weapon even though it already gives me a +5? i.e. +3 att/dmg mod and +2 holy or something?
Freebooter Ranger Archetype sounds intriguing. For changing my 1 target is it a standard action?
I've played the alchemist before, I'd really rather just play a full ranger and see how much DPS I can output with this class.
No ones mentioned deadly aim for a feat, but isnt that a must if i want to do real damage?
Thanks for listing the most important in order, I need that.
Asmodeus' Advocate |
For my array, I'd go DEX, STR, and then CON.
You use DEX to hit with a longbow, STR for damage. You can add enhancements to a bow after it's hit +5, such as holy or such, though I'd worry about hitting +5 first. You need the damage and the accuracy.
Here's a link to the Freebooter. You'll note that you can change your target as a move action.
Deadly aim is a steller feat. At low levels, though, rapid shot will do more damage. Deadly aim gets better and better as you level up, but make sure you're still accurate enough to hit things.
And, to suggest an archetype of my own, have you looked at the guide archetype? It lets you declare your favored enemies on the fly, a number of times per day. I think it's more consistent than the default, since you don't have to predict what monsters you'll be fighting levels in advance.
Grandlounge |
dex>str=con>wis is usually fine. Freebooter as major drawback you lose a full attack for each new enemy you want to bane, which is painful. The bond is a second move action. It's fun but not that strong.
Once you get access to instant enemy favoured enemy is the way to go, but it is a long way to get there.
Virtually no buff that ranger has are worth canting in combat but they are fine bonus damage if you have some time to prepare.
Witchguard with the right patron can give you a few extra spells that will help.
Otherwise ranged builds are basically the same PBS, PS, RS, DA, MS are core to the build. PBM, Clustered Shot, and IPS are the feats you get with the extra feats. You will take heavy penalties to attack rolls against non-favoured enemies this is where the strength patron and divine favour helps and weapon focus as extra accuracy boosts.
Crexis |
Is my STR ONLY going to be used for composite longbow dmg and nothing else?
I would think wisdom would be 3rd most important stat due to their spell casting.
For magical weapons you can only get a +5 bonus. I guess the +5 from composite longbow is something completely different.
I looked at 'guide' and 'freebooter', both seem good. I think I might go with 'guide', great suggestion
Dave Justus |
I'd actually go STR>DEX>CON>WIS. Even with penalties with full BAB as long as have some DEX bonus you are still likely to hit, and getting a bonus on damage is therefore more important.
I would take a horse or something else you could ride for hunters bond. Mounted archery is quite powerful (not the feat just the tactic) and you don't need to actually spend any feats to be able to move and full attack every round. That can help a lot with things like cover. Your mount is relatively weak, but since you plan on staying at range that is usually quite survivable.
Depending on how finances go, I might choose to go for a + 1 composite bow (zero or low str) and then get adaptive on it rather than getting a high STR composite bow.
Grandlounge |
Str is for damage.
Remember that rangers have no static bonuses to attack and damage, unlike say a fighter, when not using favoured enemy and are taking --4 or more to attack for most of their career.
They need accuracy to cover targets other than favoured enemies or they fall behind many other builds.
Str vs dex:
As far as stat calculations go +1 to hit ~+2 damage so +2 dex is mathematically more important than +2 strength.
Below is basic action economy stuff you don't have to read it if you are set in freebooter.
Before you pick you should decide if you want to be a support character or a DPR character. Your DRP for 2 rounds for the freebooter is about 20% what it would be if you were not using move actions to activate it abilities.
The consequences of this is that may mean 2 enemies don't die. Therefore you lost 80% of you damage and they gain 2 rounds worth by still being alive.
Asmodeus' Advocate |
I'd actually go STR>DEX>CON>WIS. Even with penalties with full BAB as long as have some DEX bonus you are still likely to hit, and getting a bonus on damage is therefore more important.
Definitely don't skimp on the strength department, to be sure. When I said DEX, then STR, I should have clarified that they run neck and neck. One of my most successful archer characters was actually a full orc with 18 STR.
Wisdom isn't too important for rangers, since you don't care about your spell DCs. I wouldn't dump it, though, because of Will saves.
VoodistMonk |
You could also worship Erastil, which opens up the trait Deadeye's Bowman, to ignore soft cover provided to your target by one person.
And the feat Erastil's Blessing, which makes your bow use wisdom for aiming. It's not like having Weapon Focus as a prerequisite is that bad of a problem.
This also boosts your weakest save and your Perception, the most used skill in the game.
It's easiest for humans with the bonus feat, but doable with any race if you want to go that route.
Crexis |
Depending on how finances go, I might choose to go for a + 1 composite bow (zero or low str) and then get adaptive on it rather than getting a high STR composite bow.
What do you mean zero or low str? How does adaptive work? I looked at the magic item but don't quite understand what it's trying to say.
I was looking at how to setup my ability scores, what do you think of this? Before Racial bonuses.
STR 16
Dex 16
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 7
If I go human, shall I add the +2 to str or dex?
Crexis |
Oh how interesting. So let's say I buy my first Composite Longbow +1, yet I have an 18 str. Does that make the bow a +4 Composite? (+4 dmg, attack would be lower based on dex?) The total cost of buying a composite +1 all the way to +5 with selling each bow for half price will still cost me: 1300 gp. As opposed to this weapon special ability which costs 1000 gp. So I don't exactly save that much money - if I added that correctly.
On the other side if I have only 12 str, as I upgrade my composite longbow to +2, +3, the upgrades continue as if I had higher str?
If the latter is the case, it seems like the way to go. Low str ability score and a very high dex. As the only reason I'd go with high str ability score initially is because of composite longbow str damage.
I don't think it's the latter tho, seems way too strong.
Please clarify and many thanks for the help!
Heather 540 |
You take a -2 Attack Penalty if your Strength Mod is less than the bow's Strength Rating. And you can only add damage up to the bow's Strength rating. So if your Str Mod is +5 and the bow's Strength Rating is only +2, then you could only add 2 to the damage. The Adaptive property adds extra damage up to the difference. And be careful how you write down the strength rating and enhancement bonuses so you don't get them confused with each other.
Crexis |
Still unsure how to setup my ability scores. I just read this guide: https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=11JBYSqZhVxgKCPjYJBhH13k73j6fUoeFnV CKwutC42M&pli=1
He seems to recommend a very high dex but not a great strength. Isn't the str score ALL my damage?
Voodist your last post just made me more confused. It seems adaptive only seems to work if my ability score rises on its own. (i.e. via belt of strength or raising ability scores at levels 4,8,12 etc)
Recommendations on what to have my dex and str at level 1? (human)
Crexis |
Nice, I like that stat buy. Basically i'll eventually get a +4/+4 str/dex belt and then a +4/+6 str/dex belt I suppose.
By level 6 how many arrows can I launch from my composite bow?
2 for BAB, 1 more for manyshot, 1 for haste. I suppose at level 6 I'd probably take improved precise shot since it has more uses then the manyshot. So I guess 3-4 arrows per round?
First time ever playing a ranged non-magic user, thanks for the help!
Grandlounge |
VoodistMonk offers a good array
18/16/12/10/12/7 is a 20 pb.
You will get a STR bonus from a belt, found potions, buffs from allies that is what adaptive is for.
You damage comes from die(4.5), PBS (1), Deadly aim (scaling), favored enemy (variable), weapon enchancment.
Level 6 if you picked up manyshot you have iteritive 1 (-2) with many shot, (-2)rapid shot, interative 2 (-7). 4 arrows.
3 arrows if you're waiting for level 7 for manyshot.
Crexis |
Could you give me recommendations on my Feats list?
I've got this listed up til level 7
Feats:
L1: Point Blank Shot
(H)L1: Precise Shot
L2: Rapid Shot
L3: Weapon Focus (Composite Longbow)
L5: Deadly Aim
L6: Improved Precise Shot
L7: Manyshot
How do you feel bout that order?
Thoughts and recommendations on L9/L10/L11?
Crexis |
Yeah the guide Im reading is really making me want to get a mounted animal companion and do mounted combat. Never done it before,hopefully not too complex. Sounds like a lot of fun.
Is there any ways to increase the number of arrows I can fire per round on top of these by level 11:
3 for BAB
1 for manyshot
1 for rapid shot
1 for haste
Is there any feats/items/equipment/archetypes I can get to increase the number of arrows per round.
And also is there anything on top of the feats I have and magical weapon enchantments I can put on my composite longbow to increase the damage per arrow? On top of gravity bow and aspect of the falcon.
On the issue of weapon enchantment, if I take a +2 magical enchantment onto my Composite Longbow +5, it will cost 8000 gp. Now if I want to make that a +4 it will cost another 24,000 gp more. BUT what if I added another +2 holy instead on top of the +2. How much would that cost?
How would you recommend I divy up the max +5 enchantment onto my composite bow?
Heather 540 |
If you go with Half-Orc for race, you can use an Orc Hornbow as a Martial Weapon. It's basically a Composite Longbow but with a higher base damage. Its range is 30 feet shorter though but that tends not to be a problem. Half-Orc can also use the Sacred Tattoo racial trait which gives you a Luck Bonus on your saving throws.
Gummy Bear |
Random Notes:
Adaptive - IMO the most important part about it is that when your STR gets reduced you don't start sucking at your one job.
Str vs Dex - If you don't hit, it doesn't matter how much damage you do. With all the penalties that are normally applied to archery, Dex is way more important. The advantage of archery is that you don't have to move to full attack. While frontliners have to move to close then get a single swing, if you can see it as an archer, you can full attack. That's a huge deal.
+4/+6 belt - Be aware that this is a custom item. May not matter in your campaign, but I don't know your GM.
Weapon Enhancement Costs - Holy is priced as a +2 enhancement, so would cost the same as adding a static +2 bonus to your bow. Personally, I think DR is the bane of the archer. If you aren't/can't weapon blanche arrows to amend this, more +1's on your bow is the way to go. If you are certain the majority of things you fight will be evil, Holy is really freaking good as AAAALLLLL of your arrows are getting that damage. That gets silly very quickly.
General advice from a lowly candy ursine - don't get caught up on buffing. If the choice is between full attacking and casting gravity bow, fire up that full attack. You want to do all your buffing before hand if you can, otherwise I'd recommend against it.
Grandlounge |
Orc horn bow averages 7 damage. Regular is 4.5 2.5 is better than average feats like weapon force/weapon spec but worse than good feats like rapid shot. It's a decent trade.
You pay the full piece as if the weapon was +4. Total price of 34000 gp.
Boost attacks and damage.
All the feat as I have laid out.
Scent + pheromone arrows
Use an animal companion to attack above arrows help with that.
Buy these Gloves, Deliquescent gloves
Ioun stone to boost attacks.
Pre-casting spells (gravity bow and aspect of the falcon)
Multiclass.
Convince someone to play a bard.
Buy a bunch of something bane arrows.
Grandlounge |
34 was a typo 32
Pale Green Prism, cracked (there is a list on the d20PFSrd there are a ton of useful ones I would recommend giving it a scan).
You can buy bane arrows if you know a fight is going to be hard and you know what you will be fighting. The cost depends on if the GM lets you by a few or if you have to buy 50. But yes, in general, it is a boss thing.
50 +1 bane arrows are 8000gp so you don't want to have to buy too many but when you need them they are priceless.
Pink Dragon |
Others have covered most of what I would recommend too. In addition to those, I recommend taking the Guide archetype. As a swift action your character can make any target the subject of your favored enemy. This bypasses the need to carefully select favored enemies. The downside is that this ability has a per day use.
Crexis |
I really like both freebooter and guide archetypes, hard to choose b/w those.
I'd like to use/try a mount in combat. I read this guide - not sure how date outdated some of the parts of this are but it seems very solid. Is mounted combat still very feasible? One thing I did notice was that horse mounts back when he made this guide took up a 1x2 space compared to 2x2 now for all large creatures.
Lastoths Guide to Archery Rangers
https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=11JBYSqZhVxgKCPjYJBhH13k73j6fUoeFnV CKwutC42M&pli=1
So if I went any of these 2 archetypes I'd lose my animal companion mount. What if I just 'summon' a mount via wartrain mount spell (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/w/wartrain-mount) How would you compare the animal companion vs wartrain mount?
For anyone that has experience with mounted combat, what feats are necessary? Where is the best place to read up on mounted combat and how to maximize use of a mount? Best archetypes for animal companion mounts?
The one thing I have to keep in mind is that we have 2 frontliners - Barbarian and Ninja.
Grandlounge |
If the animal is not attacking bodyguards is good but you can get most of the benefits by just taking the feats.
Animal companions are 3 quarters of a character. A war trained mount is like a 2 cr creature. You can buy better mounts but the cost adds up.
Undersized mount, narrow from help with size.
WagnerSika |
Random Notes:
Weapon Enhancement Costs - Holy is priced as a +2 enhancement, so would cost the same as adding a static +2 bonus to your bow. Personally, I think DR is the bane of the archer. If you aren't/can't weapon blanche arrows to amend this, more +1's on your bow is the way to go.
Bows can make arrows bypass only DR/magic and DR/alignament, and alignament only if the bow is aligned. So a +5 bow with normal arrows only bypasses DR/magic.
Dragonchess Player |
Random Notes:
Weapon Enhancement Costs - Holy is priced as a +2 enhancement, so would cost the same as adding a static +2 bonus to your bow. Personally, I think DR is the bane of the archer. If you aren't/can't weapon blanche arrows to amend this, more +1's on your bow is the way to go. If you are certain the majority of things you fight will be evil, Holy is really freaking good as AAAALLLLL of your arrows are getting that damage. That gets silly very quickly.
In "typical" campaigns, most enemies will be evil; holy is usually worth it after adaptive and (possibly) distance (unless almost all combat takes place in enclosed areas).
Having a selection of arrows (probably in an efficient quiver) is often enough, with a magic bow, to deal with common damage reduction: cold iron arrows treated with silver weapon blanch are pretty cheap (12 gp per 20 normal arrows and 14 gp per 20 blunt arrows) and bypass both DR/cold iron and DR/silver; durable adamantine arrows are a bit pricey (61 gp each), but worth having a few of (both normal and blunt versions) for the occasional construct. Investing a few skill ranks in Craft (Bows) and raw materials (carried in a handy haversack with the artisan tools and some doses of weapon blanch) can allow your character to replenish their ammunition when away from towns and cities.