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So I'm reading Scarwall to prep running it and find it confusing without background on the Brotherhood. I've done a lot of searching and can't find a simple explanation of who they are. Given the plot setup in the adventure, I know the adventurers will look deeply at the motivation of those from the Brotherhood so it will help to know the reasons those members will state for their desire to help.
Surely they can't claim a right to help due to being like worshipers of Zon-Kuthon or the like so I'm not certain how they justify any right to help.
Thoughts?
The Brotherhood of bones seems pretty problematic to me as well. The idea is that as worshipers on Zon-Kuthon they want to further the god of pain's ends while keeping a low profile so as not to attract the attentions of would be heroes. To that effect they want to collect Kazavon's bones and keep them safe and quiet in a hidden temple somewhere. Actually resurrecting such a high profile historic champion of Zon-Kuthon would draw too much attention, and I guess Kazavon was a loose cannon anyways.
All that in mind the only reason any group of PC's would be willing to work with the brotherhood of bones is out of desperation. Both the brotherhood and the players want to prevent the resurrection of Kazavon but that's all they have in common.
The brotherhood is evil, the players are probably good or good leaning. If they do work together it's likely both parties will double cross the other once the crown of fangs is actually in hand. The best case end in this alliance is that one party actually trust the other to keep the crown safe and not use it against them in the future.
The more likely outcome is that the players just murder the brotherhood member either in their first meeting, when they notice scrying sensors, or inside scarwall.
Late post here, as my group is only just getting to their first encounter with Laori. I like the additional intrigue that the Brotherhood of Bones injects into the situation, as it's not clear cut whether they are allies, enemies, or something in-between.
As I read it, I view the Brotherhood of Bones as a religious sect that represents a particular perspective within the church of Zon-Kuthon. Their opponents probably see them as heretics. The Brotherhood believes that Kazavon was an abomination who thwarted their god's will by seeking his own glory and turning everyone against him. Thus, they dedicate themselves to thwarting those within their church who misguidedly seek Kazavon's resurrection. Few things spur bitterness more than religious battles, and this is a battle for the soul of Zon-Kuthon's church. It's complicated, which is why I like it.
I thought they wanted to resurrect the dragon though so that makes even less in common. I like the idea of preventing that and just storing as it makes them not so opposed. They can claim it's their right to protect from heretics I suppose.
Certainly interesting and I like how they can be rid of one later and possibly see the other side more with the hero's beliefs.
I think in general Zon Kuthon and his worshipers don't appreciate Kazavon and his attention, but the Brotherhood of Bones is specifically tasked or a subsect that formed with the express goal of keeping the extremes that make ZK's worship seem like a threat to "people with soft sensibilities", specifically as it relates to Kazavon secret.
Admittedly, the Brotherhood in the original version of the AP wanted to bring Kazavon back from the dead and was retconned to they just want to keep the artifacts hidden, but there also isn't anything about the Brotherhood besides this AP as far as I can tell, so there's not way to tell what is fact.
I agree that it's an extremely weak motivation.
For my game, I made the BoB a sect under the control of the Umbral Court in Nidal. Here, it was the Court that wanted to keep Kazavon from being resurrected. Their logic was that he'd immediately become one of (if not THE) most powerful agent of ZK on the planet, and thus possibly a threat to their position. So their motivations are more political-- to eliminate a rival. None of this "Oh, we don't want our god to be TOO powerful because attention" stuff. It was more "We don't want a CR 25 dragon swooping in and taking over Nidal the moment he feels like it."
It worked pretty well. Sial came across as the kind of NPC who was obviously evil, but whose motivations were compatible with those of the PCs, so they could work with him pretty well.
Hello! I am reading chapter 3, we'll start it tomorrow. I'm wondering a bit what to do with this Brotherhood of bones motivation.
To be honest, I am tempted to go for the motive of the original version. I have the impression that it could be a fun concept that the PC need to make an alliance with a potential greater evil, and cope with the consequences later on. What do you think? Did anyone tried it?
I guess the change was made for a good reason. Maybe the characters shoot at sight on NPC trying to ressurect Kazavon ^^'
I very much prefer the original motivation, and can recommend that you have it be Sial/Laori's original intent even if they pretend like they just want to keep the items safe or outright lie that they don't want to bring him back.
Personally, I have a general arch that I keep for Laori as you go through book 5 where she essentially begins to lose faith as she becomes overwhelmed in Scarwall (even the original version before the remaster shoves a million undead into every stinking room). Sial stays true to the task, even slowly pulling off the mask of their intent as he attempts to corrupt one or more of the PCs into ZK's importance; further more, he can insolate himself from just being "paladin'd on sight" by his ability to access certain parts of the castle (the pass wall into the star tower, the forbiddance effect to the bishop, and his ability to leave the castle's binding effect at will) which Laori loses upon falling from ZK's grace, and a better knowledge of the castle from better research and preparation than the crazy masochistic elf. There also is of course the importance of the Star Tower, which is a necessary brutality to keep Rovagug from escaping and thus they both know will require a new sacrifice; hence why they are grooming a PC. However, with Laori's crisis of faith, it is also possible for them to redeem her; Sial will of course see the weakness and shift to it being her who should become the Star Tower's new curate as punishment, but this can push the whole dynamic to a head. Then of course, if the party *knows* that siding with Sial means that either they kill him too or they have to allow a fully powerful Kazavon to come back at some point in the future when the other bones have been found, well then they are much more likely to side with Laori and force Sial to be the new curate. Of course, there's still room in this for the party to break bad or just otherwise be evil enough to still sacrifice Laori and side with Nidal, but this then has the implications as well of what will happen to Korvosa (maybe it gets folded into Nidal) and if the party members might try to take the Crown of Fangs for themselves.
You could of course go with "they say they want to keep the artifacts secret and safe but you don't know" even though they aren't lying in the remaster, but I think it's a more impactful decision if the party knows their real intents are otherwise.
Ok, thank you again for the detailed answer. For me, it's quite reassuring to see other players trying it too.
I have copied your ideas for the book 5 in my notes.
My personal impression is that my players will strongly think that the ZK followers will try to bring back Kazavon as soon as the players have enough info to have this idea. Then they will interpret anything else as a lie anyway. They are cautious ^^'
Thank you so much for the ideas on how to cope with this motivation later on in the story. I'm going for the original motive (so they want to bring Kazavon back), I'll drop a line here to explain how it went afterwards.
I look forward to hearing about it!
Just to add a small reminder in case, Laori in book 3 never really reveals her direct goal, only that she "coincidentally" has an interest in the same guy who knows about where Neolandus is. And that coincidentally should be believable enough (at least until the end of the book when Neolandus starts talking about evil blue dragon Kazavon) because she seems to just be after the artist to talk about his art. Now since you said you have very cautious players, maybe they immediately realize she's not being 100% honest when she says "I just wanna ask Scream about where he gets his inspirations..." and very hopefully the party doesn't kill her on sight (I had a paladin/rogue in a gestalt game that bypassed the Otyughs, snuck up and saw her in the window, assumed she had murdered Scream in his hovel and just snuck up on her, won initiative, and now *she* was painted all over the wall). If you do have any overly zealous paladins, maybe a subtle reminder "attacking her to kill her without proof is an evil act" can delay long enough for her to at least try to explain herself.
wow, that's sudden :o
I think it will be fine. One of my PC is also a character that was influenced by Kazavon and now feel lost. He does not that, obviously, but he told me in his bg that he feels fascinated and obsessed by the pyramid. I told him that since a few weeks, this fascination disappeared as if something was suddenly broken.
So I modified slightly Salvator art to include the same fascination for the pyramid (a call from Kazavon). I think even if they see that Laori is not honest on her motivation, this PC will be keen to know everything related to Salvator's inspiration, and will want to keep her alive to ask her why it matters.
I just need her to have the time to say "I just wanna ask Scream about where he gets his inspirations..." - which should be fine as the PC does not yet know the role of Salvator. They headed to Vencarlo's place and at the end of the session, they were attacked by the mantis. I hope they will next go to the artist's lair following some indications of Amin.
Thanks for the advices!
We played a game after the messages above where the party just met Laori at the end of the session, and then we played last Friday (Holidays agendas :-(... )
They went to Salvator's place and met Laori. She's disturbing, but they like her. The Pharasma Cleric of the party is quite nice to hey, trying to understand her points of view. The old ranger recognize her value and share her interest for Salvator's painting. The other are neutral.
Her and the party managed to steal some brillant Salvator paintings from the Emperor's place, and freed the artist. She left the party to escort him back on the main part of Korvosa.
They did not ask about her motive, which is just fine. Actally, I was surprised on smoothly it went :-)