| Lusinian |
I have a blind character in my party (long story). He's a rogue, so it ain't that good. Hence, since the party has the ability to research spells and create magic items, and since the spells and magic items we know aren't of much help, they want to go at it. I'm wondering if what we came up with is balanced :
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range 120 ft.
Area 10 minutes/level
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
You detect light in the surrounding area. This comes as an additional sense, and thus doesn't rely on vision, scent, hearing or other senses you might have. You cannot know shadow's forms, and thus cannot decipher what the environment and people look like by using this spell, but you can detect areas of bright, normal, dim light or darkness.
Despite the name, this really is a blindfold. Curse the constructor for having a bad humour sense. This item gives its wearer the constant benefit of detect light and sift (the later is by default a 10-ft. cube cornering the wearer's square, in the direction he's looking at; he may choose a new square within the spell range as a move action).
RequirementsCraft Wondrous Item, detect light, sift; Cost half the market price
I designed detect light from detect radiation. I'm worried the item might not be balanced : first there are warnings everywhere about continuous spell effects, then I didn't know what CL to make. Both spells can be cast at first CL. I'm not so sure about the move action part, since sift is cast as a standard action, but on the other hand moving spells already in effects generally is a move action.
So, what to you think ? Are they balanced ? How should I price the item and should I add something about not allowing just anybody to use it ? (By the way, any better name for the stupid item ?)
| Pizza Lord |
I don't think it's unbalanced. I need to make sure it actually reads and does what you intend it to do, however. Before going further, I am just noting that these are almost all entirely opinion-based.
As written, detect light doesn't detect creatures or their shadows, only the light level in a particular area (ie. the illumination of any particular 5 foot square in the spell's area.) I would probably allow this to be 120 feet if it were a cone, directed in a direction any round as a free action (or remaining in the previous direction otherwise), possibly allowing a swift or move action to change it during the round if needed after the initial direction setting. Otherwise, I would restrict it to a 60 foot radius if constant and all-around.
I know you based it on detect radiation and that has a 120 foot radius, but in that case, radiation is such a rare thing to encounter (or it will be in such a location that it is easy for a GM to denote its location) and it's unlikely to shift about (or change in intensity and strength). In the case of requiring a GM to indicate areas of illumination, that kind of situational condition will be encountered every single time. Except in cases where the entire area is dark or lit uniformly, it will also require notation on just how well-lit or dim each space is. Then the area will be subject to changes and notations based on the movements of creatures carrying light sources (in some cases requiring a GM to erase or move about conditional indicators on a map or website to account for each such change (assuming you use maps, and this may not apply in your game, but it might in others). As such, restricting it to 60 feet (if not less) is probably being very polite to the guy who has to keep track of all that.
If I had to reword it along those lines (and assuming that it otherwise is intended to work how you have it presented,) I would probably go something like:
You detect the illumination level of any square within 60 feet that you have line of effect to. You can determine whether that space has bright, normal, dim, or dark illumination. You detect nothing else about the light source or its properties; such as colors or shades, whether it's supernatural darkness, whether the light is from a continual flame or wall of fire, or whether it's holy illumination that harms undead. You do not detect the shadows of objects or creatures unless they are large enough to shade the entire space, even then, you get no indication of form or type or even what is causing the light level, only that the area is dark, dim, normal, or bright. Such creatures or objects moving about can cause nebulous 'shadows' or trackable areas in your perception, though they still have total concealment unless you can perceive them in another manner.
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At the least, the first sentence limits the spell to 'visible light' rather than just light, which would require a GM to adjudicate whether infrared or ultraviolet shows up. Also, the mention of line of effect prevents readers from wondering if they can tell whether the room on the other side of a door is lit or dark or otherwise require the GM to judge areas that the PCs can't reach or access at that time.
As for the white cane, I agree about the name needing some tweaking. It's okay if the creator had a strange sense of humor and named it something silly, but if you are going to keep the name 'white cane' at least add another descriptor to make sure it's understood that it isn't a cane. Like 'white cane blinders' or 'white cane blindfold' or 'Eye-sash of Blind Man's Boon' or something that at least puts the item type there (not that you're planning to publish this or anything).
The only problem I see, is that sift specifies that you must be able to see the surface you are searching. Since that would obviously cause some potential misreading, adding a simple 'though the wearer need not be able to see the surface' in there somewhere should suffice.
Typically I am not a fan of the 'You're blind, but not really,' type of item (typically this means blindfolds that blind you... but let you see.) In this case, however, the effect is actually worse on most wearers (that aren't blind). You don't get any ability to detect creatures or anything, only to know whether an area is illuminated or in shadow (which could help you try and hide) or do some searches (at a penalty). The fact that it otherwise would occupy a 'free' space and slot on a character that otherwise would have little use for most other eye slot items doesn't bother me either. So I don't have a problem with its power (assuming it is meant to function as I am reading it).
| Lusinian |
As written, detect light doesn't detect creatures or their shadows, only the light level in a particular area (ie. the illumination of any particular 5 foot square in the spell's area.)
Yes, it is because having the details of the shadow's forms would kill being blind entirely, and that would be a much higher level spell, because it would render ineffective spells with blinding effects. I was only interested in knowing the illumination to make Stealth less improbable.
As for the spell's range, I agree that illumination levels should be infinitely more common than radiations. I prefer your wording as well, by far. For my defense, I'm not an English native speaker, and it is very nice to have an elegant and clear wording. I also prefer your naming for it, for clarity reasons too, and your addiction to the now-renamed White Cane Blindfold.
From what you are writing, I don't think you have taken any wrong assumption as to these functions. Should I repost the updated versions ?
| Pizza Lord |
If you like, you certainly could. I don't think there's too much that other readers couldn't follow along with the two posts so far. Only if you get a few more changes or suggestions, where readers might have to follow along multiple posts would I think it necessary, but if you've already got them updated and written out, I don't think anyone will object if you add the updated versions here in the same topic.
| Pizza Lord |
Magic item pricing is more of an art than a science. We could certainly go through the dynamic crafting table. Determine the spells involved and how they would price as permanent and constant effects, then add 50% to the cost of the second one, but it's ultimately better to compare the item in power to other, similar items and based on what it does and how it affects the game world.
Looking at the list, you're probably good between 2,000 and 3,000. Since it actually blinds its wearer normally (which you might have to remind them in the description, like a blind man's fold), you are probably good at 2,000 gp, but again, that's just basing it on similar items. You also have to take into account that someone crafting an item will only pay half price, so make sure that you are comfortable with all aspects of when a character might get access to it.
| Lusinian |
It is because I am aware it is more an art that I was keen on receiving some advice on it. Level to access it is not a real problem either in this party, as they already are level 12 to 16. (The real problem with these guys is, they have virtually unlimited funds.) But I am not sure that the crafting price should be less than 2000 gp (500 gp from sift, and 1500 gp from sense illumination), that is, the base crafting worth for continuous spell effects of that level.
I do agree that market price shouldn't reach too high, however, since creatures with normal vision will not want for a very high price an item with such 'defects'. Maybe they're sold with a market price actually less than the usual twice crafting cost, as for holy water, be it 2500 gp for sharks or 2000 gp in specialized institutions caring for visually impaired ? This way, if need is, access to it might be limited by shear unavailability. At-will sift is somewhat worrisome for the usual trap-finder at low levels, but those institutions might refuse to give it to people whom they don't think actually need it, saying they have other things to do than giving 2000 gp to every adventurer in town.
| Lusinian |
Still going into trying to make adventuring slightly less of a nightmare for blind characters.
So, many spells and abilities manifest as visual input: spells like detect radiation, or abilities like psychometry. While I do not intend to make psychometry easily usable for blind characters (at least not for now: blind is blind, if a character is to be blind, let's make it truly blind), I think blind spellcasters could make those spells usable for themselves. What about this:
Benefit:Spells and effects sends you back input through a magical sense or feeling, not needing you to have access to the normal senses for those spells. You do not receive any additional information compared to what you would have learned if you had access to the usual senses. If, had you had the usual sense, you would have receive the input without understanding its meaning, this does not allow you to understand its meaning either.
Normal: Some spells, such as detect radiation or sift, specify a sense to be used to receive the spell's results.
Special: At DM discretion, a creature permanently deprived of a sense a creature of its type normally has could receive this feat as a bonus feat when taking the Blind-Figth feat. In that case, it only replaces the sense that creature is deprived of.
Is it unproperly balanced? I thought it might be uninteresting for creatures usually benefiting from all their senses, since, even if there are many occasions to get blinded or deafened, the spells actually sending sensorial input are only few, but still interesting enough if they tend to use those spells frequently. When playing with 3.5 stuff, as these rely even more on vision than PF, it avoids rewriting each effect so that it corresponds to PF habits. Am I wrong anywhere?
| Pizza Lord |
I am not sure what that feat applies to, whether just detection-type spells or all spells. It needs to be more explicit. For instance, does a lightning bolt let you 'see' where the targets were if it hits them? When you cast bless do you sense the location of your allies in the radius when it's cast? When you cast light are you now 'seeing' the illuminated area as if you see (and if your race normally had low-light vision can you 'see' twice as far?
| Lusinian |
Once again, any English skill I might have is failing me. I mean mostly detection-type spells, such a sift (vision, touch) or detect radiation (vision), I would like it to work with other casters' spells and items if they were supposed to be readable for the character (like many items from the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook, such as a Table of Safe Meal). Some divination-type spells might be included too if they rely on a particular sense. And if it could be usable for some supernatural or spell-like abilities, such as the oracle's revelation automatic writing, it would be within the idea I have of it. Though, for that type of revelation, it would rather be that the 'artwork' produced is in relief or something... since it is more or less public.
Lightning bolt or bless don't relay information, they give a bonus, so they're excluded from the feat I'm trying to make. Light enhances a sense, and doesn't transmit information on its own, so it wouldn't apply, exactly like one doesn't enhances the natural weapons of a creature that has none.
Could you help me reword it in proper English? If it needs to have a prerequisite, or is actually too good to be given as free, or if the very idea is bad, I am ready to change it, or abandon it, or split it between several feats if it would be appropriate.
| Lusinian |
EDIT: I'm stupid, detection is divination. Well, it's supposed to work with detection spells. Divination at large is not excluded. If something required a check to notice it or to understand it, it has to still be the case.
In addition, here's actually the very first thing I wanted to create for blind characters, but it slipped out of my mind as our adventure led me to need more immediately usable stuff.
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range touch
Target touched book
Duration 1 hour or until the book is closed
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless, object); Spell Resistance yes
You cause one book to read itself aloud, starting from the point you indicate. The book turns its pages itself. After one hour, the book closes and shuts up. If the book is closed before one hour has passed, the spell ends.
I'm not too keen of my school choice, it looked like a bit of transmutation (changing an item properties: a book has a voice) and divination (meddling with information and all). And I'm not sure what classes to give it to. I took the prestidigitation list, but I'm not sure it fits with the idea. Since it's not a spell I have with a practical objective in mind, except to read the books, I'm not totally sure what to model it after.
| Pizza Lord |
For Sensitive Magic, I don't think it's really needed in most cases. In my experience, detect radiation is one of the only detection type spells that gives any visual indication to the caster. Almost all the others I know of just give a 'sense' or indication of the aura being detected for. For instance detect magic doesn't make an object glow or give any indication of where it is, only a sense that it's within the detected area. Further concentration can let the user locate its position (and possibly learn more through Spellcraft if the object is in line of sight) but I think it works just as well for a blind caster as for a sighted one. I think the feat would end up being too narrow for purposes of being needed.
Similarly, if an orphanage or hospice for the blind was going to create magical items, they would probably just pay for remove blindness. It would be for more logical unless a person's very eyes were damaged or destroyed (in which case regeneration or heal might be needed, which are more expensive). It would be very rare (in my opinion) for such an item to be made except for, or by, a specific person for their own use.
For read aloud, the spell seems fine to me. If you're worried about school choice, then you can go with illusion (glamer), similar to the magic mouth spell, since you're creating sound.
There is a spell called read nonmagic (and a better version called greater read nonmagic) in 101 Spells for the Common Man from Zenith Games. It is a 0-level version very similar to yours. Obviously, you probably don't need to purchase a book of 101 spells for one spell, even if it was a collaboration by some of the greatest minds on this board (and me, but my contributions are the most humble), just mentioning it exists for the sake of all the other great authors here.
| Lusinian |
Indeed, Sensitive Magic would be too narrow. I was annoyed by all the 3.5 effects based on vision, but those I know of who translated in Path did no longer include this feature, and after reflection, perceiving warnings put by other spellcasters isn't too fun, even if it would be important in a world where those signals are frequent.
Ah, indeed a misreading on my part, I thought remove blindness worked on magically induced or illness induced blindness and not on congenital blindness (since that should be a "natural blindness", right?). That made blindness more frequent.
Ooh, quite a discovery. I am interested, as I like having that sort of spells in my worlds, and tend to lack them when I try stating out servants or the like ^^