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I understand the want to have everyone start with a new PF2 PC, and I agree that we shouldn't be able to transfer all our PCs to PF2 builds -- but for mercy's sake, please let us keep at least ONE PC!
I dunno, maybe everyone is allowed to convert one PC, plus one for each GM Star, and follow strict procedures on how to adapt that PC to PF2.
So a 5-Star GM can choose six PCs and rebuild them using the procedure for converting current PCs to PF2. A 2-Star GM can choose, IF he or she wishes, to select up to three PCs to convert to PF2.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE consider this.
We all know that PF1 and options to play our PCs will sooner rather than later dwindle to nothing
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Instead of GM-connection, how about *years played in the campaign*?
All rewards lean towards GMs, when this is a system that is going to need both players and GMs.
Let us look at some equitable way to acknowledge those who have been with the campaign the longest but not necessarily GM'd the most, and then maybe add the GM as a modifer to that?
Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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Instead of GM-connection, how about *years played in the campaign*?All rewards lean towards GMs, when this is a system that is going to need both players and GMs.
Let us look at some equitable way to acknowledge those who have been with the campaign the longest but not necessarily GM'd the most, and then maybe add the GM as a modifer to that?
If you start to go that route, you will have people who played two tables at their local con every year, and others who have played next to everything within 3 years.
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I have a feeling we will have some interesting ways to keep our PCs relevant in our personal and even world canons regardless of what new players we make in PF2. Have a character with a Venture Captain boon? I'm sure you can still use him as a GM in modules that give you the freedom to select your own venture captain. We've already had one specific 7-11 scenario this year that gives you the ability to immortalize a PC, and I think we will see more opportunities to immoralize our PCs as Season 9 wraps up. We have over 70 weeks until PFS2 comes out.
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Yes, pick a current PC, maybe that 9th Level Paladin you really love, and convert him to a 9th Level PF2 PC.
I acknowledge it would be problematic to get every single PC converted to PF2, but I feel that there are many of us who would like to keep one or two PCs; rebuilding the crunch is easy -- the fluff is what's important and that can take time.
Fine for those who play PFS all the time, or even regularly, but for those of us who play sporadically and have taken a few years to develop a PC or two, we won't want to start over.
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If you start to go that route, you will have people who played two tables at their local con every year, and others who have played next to everything within 3 years.
This is an issue, though.
Some folks only get to play a couple tables a year. Why should they be punished for not having the time to do more?
Why should people who play six games a week be rewarded more?
True story, my first year I had maybe ten tables of play or so, and I considered myself *lucky* for that much.
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Rrebuilding the crunch is easy -- the fluff is what's important and that can take time.
I think you got that backwards? It'd be pretty hard to convert my kitsune gunslinger devoted muse. Flavor wise, I can be a Tian human and call myself a kitsune. Mechanically, call me a skeptic but I have a strong feeling I won't be able to do the same things in PF2 Core.
I think this'll slow down Core locally, given all those nifty core ideas for characters I have instantly got shelved when I got this announcement. I'm sure I'll get inspired by all the awesome new mechanical gooddies paizo will give us in the new game, not to mention the opportunity to play a friggin' goblin!
I've been part of PFS since day one and in the next "over 70 weeks" I'll maybe play or DM 1-10 Scenarios, or maybe zero.
I don't want to lose the PCs I've spent ten years occasionally playing up; I finally got a chance to play a couple of them at PaizoCon 10 months ago; I don't want to lose them.
I can't be the only one that wants to keep at least one or two PCs; I won't mind following a strict procedure to convert a PC to another system.
Rebuilding the crunch is easy -- the fluff is what's important and that can take time.
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I think you got that backwards? It'd be pretty hard to convert my kitsune gunslinger devoted muse. Flavor wise, I can be a Tian human and call myself a kitsune. Mechanically, call me a skeptic but I have a strong feeling I won't be able to do the same things in PF2 Core.
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You're right in some sense; I believe it depends on the build. For some of us the Fluff is everything and the crunch is not so important. I'm one of those. I don't care too much about the crunch; I'll convert or adapt or whatever I need to do -- it's the fluff that's important to me. That's what I don't want to lose.
Mostly, I DON'T want to start from scratch.
I'm hoping I'm not the only one.
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It was posted that there will be opportunities to get credit applied to your first PC. I'm sure you can call your PC the same name and claim that bonus experience came from the same scenarios you played...
I've seen someone play an inquisitor of Shyka who they exclusively used for "replays" who was claiming to be reliving their live as punishment for breaking a relic in Shyka's library, joining the Pathfinder Society so she can find and replace the relic she broke.
Regional Venture-Coordinator, Appalachia
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I really do love this idea.
I understand that being able to just slate over a whole 20+ character slate is going to be a problem but like....I also really dont want to have to completely restart the clock on my slowplayed -1 who is only just now reaching the highest levels.
Slapping a paint of PF2 paint on him and taking him back to level 2 would be...kinda blah honestly.
(This is setting aside that several of my most beloved characters are going to be just straight up impossible to convert for several years like my "Cleric" of Aroden who is actually a Mediumn, my Rose Warden, my Hellknight, and my Nagaji Samurai Ronin devoted to ending slavery everywhere)
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I have several characters registered with 0 XP, just a name as well as a number of low level characters I won't get to play to that high a level before the changeover.
I want a way to port some of the names over, even if it's not the same character, and only a spiritual successor.
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I have several characters registered with 0 XP, just a name as well as a number of low level characters I won't get to play to that high a level before the changeover.
I want a way to port some of the names over, even if it's not the same character, and only a spiritual successor.
I agree. If switching to 2.0 equates to having to scrap everything accomplished already with our characters, let us rebuild our characters under the same names if we want. Afterall, I put alot of time, effort, thought and heart into the creation of my characters.
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I think the idea of scrapping existing PCs is as terrible as it gets. I really don't see an issue with creating general conversion rules for 1st ed characters, and letting us carry them over.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8
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I think the idea of scrapping existing PCs is as terrible as it gets. I really don't see an issue with creating general conversion rules for 1st ed characters, and letting us carry them over.
Ask anybody who was around for the Living City 2nd Edition to 3rd Edition conversion debacle.
IMO a clean slate is best.
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Yes, pick a current PC, maybe that 9th Level Paladin you really love, and convert him to a 9th Level PF2 PC.
I acknowledge it would be problematic to get every single PC converted to PF2, but I feel that there are many of us who would like to keep one or two PCs; rebuilding the crunch is easy -- the fluff is what's important and that can take time.
Fine for those who play PFS all the time, or even regularly, but for those of us who play sporadically and have taken a few years to develop a PC or two, we won't want to start over.
If this was allowed, which I hope it is not, I would not do it because there are going to be new class and options to be explored. No need to go back to an old concept, no matter how fun it was.
Plus, it is unlikely that there will be higher level content available.
I think the best approach is to start fresh.
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Not to mention, PFS1 is still going to be an option to play. There will be a season 10 through 2018/19, and after that, the campaign will still be active and be able to be played until you've played out all the content.
The only difference is that there will be no new PFS1 content after August (presumably Gen Con) of 2019.
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I would be sad if all of my characters become shelved. Mostly the mid-tier ones, the ones whose stories are not over yet, nor so near the beginning that I can just reset them.
Of course a lot of concepts won't be available at the beginning of 2.0 (mostly races, I guess, luckily I don't usually play that much into class as flavor).
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I would be sad if all of my characters become shelved. Mostly the mid-tier ones, the ones whose stories are not over yet, nor so near the beginning that I can just reset them.
Of course a lot of concepts won't be available at the beginning of 2.0 (mostly races, I guess, luckily I don't usually play that much into class as flavor).
Well, we have basically 18 months to plan. In 18 months a lot can happen. You can focus your play time on all of your existing characters (or at least your few favorites) and just don't create any new characters. In 18 months, if you play only 2 times a month, that's 36 play opportunities and can get 1 character to level 13.
That being said, if you are at a spot in your play history, where you still have a bunch left each season that you can play, PFS1 will be available for play even after PFS2 is released.
I believe there are many Players that would like to keep at least one PC. If we're willing to redo the crunch according to guidelines that Paizo provides, it should be allowed.
If you don't want to do it to one of your own PCs, fine -- no need to voice that here.
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It took me quite a few years to make a PC that was a fun level in the RPGA, and a few months later WotC cancelled 3E. All the time I had spent in the RPGA was completely, utterly wasted.
So I started with PFS right out of the gate. From Autumn of '09 when I first played a PFS Scenario to just before PaizoCon 2017, I had three PCs that I had gradually built up to the fun levels. I got a chance to play them each for one or two sessions at PaizoCon. And I hope to play at least one of them again at a GenCon or a PaizoCon or other big convention.
I don't mind GMing PFS on Free RPG Day and occasional weekend jamborees or special events. I've even agreed to help out a new FLGS near me by offering to GM a PFS table now and then. But it took nearly a decade to build up a couple PCs and now that they're just starting to get interesting, They're going to be scrapped?!
Please, Paizo, let us keep at least one PC. I'll convert my 8th Lvl Paladin/Inquisitor into an 8th Lvl like-PC in PF2. Or I'll convert my 10th Lvl Wizard to a 10th Lvl PF2 Wizard.
Just don't make us lose everything and start over at 1st or, heh, 2nd level.
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Thinking it over a clean slate I think is best. It is best for new players and returning players who have been away from the game for some time. Some of my characters personalities I will rehash in P2e but for the most part I will start fresh with new personalities. First one on the docket is a priest of Desna who acts like a stoned out happy freak and spins everything postivily. Inspired by sports commentator - Bill Walton. "Isn't great how these creatures walk between the trees, trees are so green and beautiful", etc. Say stuff like this while talking about a horrid monster bearing down on us in the woods.
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I believe there are many Players that would like to keep at least one PC. If we're willing to redo the crunch according to guidelines that Paizo provides, it should be allowed.
If you don't want to do it to one of your own PCs, fine -- no need to voice that here.
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It took me quite a few years to make a PC that was a fun level in the RPGA, and a few months later WotC cancelled 3E. All the time I had spent in the RPGA was completely, utterly wasted.
So I started with PFS right out of the gate. From Autumn of '09 when I first played a PFS Scenario to just before PaizoCon 2017, I had three PCs that I had gradually built up to the fun levels. I got a chance to play them each for one or two sessions at PaizoCon. And I hope to play at least one of them again at a GenCon or a PaizoCon or other big convention.
I don't mind GMing PFS on Free RPG Day and occasional weekend jamborees or special events. I've even agreed to help out a new FLGS near me by offering to GM a PFS table now and then. But it took nearly a decade to build up a couple PCs and now that they're just starting to get interesting, They're going to be scrapped?!
Please, Paizo, let us keep at least one PC. I'll convert my 8th Lvl Paladin/Inquisitor into an 8th Lvl like-PC in PF2. Or I'll convert my 10th Lvl Wizard to a 10th Lvl PF2 Wizard.
Just don't make us lose everything and start over at 1st or, heh, 2nd level.
I think all this angst is for naught. Especially for someone in your position. Presumably if you only have 2 or 3 characters, I'm assuming between levels 5 and 7 (not sure what you consider the fun levels,) then you have played maybe 10% of the playable content.
PFS1 is going to be available for play in perpetuity and be offered at conventions for at least the near if not foreseeable future. They just won't be producing more content after Season 10 (August 2019).
Your characters aren't dead or wasted. You can still play them, officially, and enjoy PFS1 for quite some time from August 2019.
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Please, Paizo, let us keep at least one PC. I'll convert my 8th Lvl Paladin/Inquisitor into an 8th Lvl like-PC in PF2. Or I'll convert my 10th Lvl Wizard to a 10th Lvl PF2 Wizard.
But there is not going to be adventures that a 8th or 10th level character can play in until a year or two out. So why not start up the character at 1st (or 2nd)?
I understand about how long it takes to get a character to the "fun" stage. For me, that appears to be 7th level.
If you don't want to do it to one of your own PCs, fine -- no need to voice that here.
Since we are discussing an option, I think it is relevant to understand how many people would, or would not, take an option if it was offered. So yes, I do need to voice it here. I understand that you don't agree, but don't try to restrict my right to express my opinion.
I respect your right to do the same.
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Alternatively, perhaps a future method of reward would be allowing a conversion of a character to the new system (much like how rebuilds currently work in 1.0) but they can't be rebuilt until a player has gotten a character to the level of the character in 1.0?
That way, it's not a 'power creep' and it keeps the focus on the important aspects of both, and motivates play?
...and if folks are pushing and playing in 2.0, then by the time it's 'recampaigning time' there would be enough material to support such a thing?
EDIT: This would also keep 1.0 relevant instead of a 'dead system'.
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As nice as the idea of keeping PCs sounds, it does not sound practical. I see no way to convert a character built from 10 source books released over 10 years into a character build from one new rulebook. They will share little more than a name and level at that point.
Starting at level 1 or 2 will definitely help me with learning the new system too.
A few things I'm excited about are:
1. Finally using the Swords/Spells/Scrolls GM boon that I've been sitting on waiting for 5 stars.
2. Not worrying about character death so compulsively (as a player and a GM). Will see if a little nihilism improves the game (die a legend or retire fat and wealthy).
3. Running a few 'hard mode' games at the end of Season 10.
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All good stories have endings.
Except my story just started.
I have way too many characters created, true, but that has more to do with spending the year I've played PFS to find the right character--personality and build--that spoke to me. I now have some of those characters, and none of them never get the opportunity to chase the Seeker Arc.
I just finally managed to snag some race boons. I worked hard--Tier 1 GM at GC50--and was rewarded with a rare race boon, but now I'll probably only get to play him a handful of games before he's done. The Concordance of Elements just became a thing which was perfect for my Elemental Ally druid, but he won't exist in a year.
They said that they'll keep running the old system for bookkeeping so we can keep playing PF1 PFS, yes. Unfortunately, my area is only active enough to keep 1 system going. Starfinder is very nearly dead. Also, it does not sound like they'll be producing convention boons (or even running Paizo organized convention events) for PF1.
For a lot of things, I'd probably be content porting over the Character Name. However, I wound really like a way to salvage my race boons.
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I'm disappointed I won't be able to bring characters over into the new campaign, but I completely understand why that may not be possible. We've already been told that the game will have the same core classes (plus the Alchemist).The fact of the matter is, other than my single, still 1st-level Core character, the mechanical options are likely not going to exist for me to create any of my other characters in 2.0 on launch. Yes, there are a couple of them that are close to Core. My Paladin and my Bard, for example. But not everyone's favorite character is going to be able to be recreated. 2/3s of the classes won't even exist. Many of the race boon races won't exist on launch. So the fair option is to start with a clean slate, as disappointing as that is.
If you're worried about porting over character names, I don't think anything will stop you from, for example, creating "Ferious Thune 2.0." (Dibs on "Ferious Thune 2.0!" Don't steal my name!)
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I wouldn't even mind if it was a different race. Something along the lines of: You earned this reward but never had a chance to use it; you may trade it in for one of these 3 predetermined options.
So I void my Vanara boon in front of my VC. He hands me a PF2 PFS race boon.
I know there are people with a dragon's horde of race boons. The only suggestion that I have is leave it at 1 each of the predetermined options.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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I think you're overestimating how much content there will even BE early on.
I know that for me personally i am going to have to continue to program 1e for decently long time to continue to support all of my locations.
I can say pretty much the same for my region when the product releases in August 2019, some players will shred through the released material like a school or piranhas.. at least that is what happened with Starfinder.
Since most or all of these will have PFS1 characters, very likely not have played everything (including the Gencon releases) there is plenty for them left to do in PFS1.
As long as people want it, it will likely be offered, though to be fair I know a couple of GMs who likely will switch completely when it comes to their public tables and only offer private PFS tables.
EDIT: If you are willing to play online (it's really quite fun) there will be online tables for years to come.
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I think you're overestimating how much content there will even BE early on.
I know that for me personally i am going to have to continue to program 1e for decently long time to continue to support all of my locations.
This is very true. In the beginning of the campaign people will play the first couple scenarios, and then go back to PFS1 or Starfinder for at least a month until new scenarios come out. Also, I reserve final judgement until I can actually see the system, but so far I'm not hearing anything that even makes me want to schedule it. I may stick entirely to Starfinder and PFS1 if I don't like what I see.
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I have this same issue. I've only been playing PFS v.1 for a 15 months now. Bought all of the books, GM'd as much as I could, bought all the maps, etc. My -1 is just about to start Eyes of the Ten, but it all feels useless now.
PFS1.0 will still be around to play. Be careful not to allow yourself to fall into the whole "the sky is falling and the end of times is now" because it simply not true.
Yes, this will change. But not all is lost. Enjoy your current characters, especially Eyes of the Ten as it is a blast!
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My bigger issue that everyone is saying is that PFS first edition will be around and still playable, etc.
I don't know how your local PFS community is, but mine plans to move to 2nd edition asap. So all of my PFS 1st edition is useless, unless I decide to drive an hour or so for a possible session out of town. And even then, it's all coming to a dead stop.
I had not thought about now the local areas will react. I don't see this happening in my area and I will be in a position to help drive how much 2.0 vs 1.0 is played.
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I had not thought about now the local areas will react. I don't see this happening in my area and I will be in a position to help drive how much 2.0 vs 1.0 is played.My bigger issue that everyone is saying is that PFS first edition will be around and still playable, etc.
I don't know how your local PFS community is, but mine plans to move to 2nd edition asap. So all of my PFS 1st edition is useless, unless I decide to drive an hour or so for a possible session out of town. And even then, it's all coming to a dead stop.
I don't think many (of the vocal) people are thinking about how other lodges that are smaller than theirs might be affected. They continue to say "PFS1e will still be around" as if that addresses every argument to retain or transfer some sort of credit earned over to the new system.
If there's no incentive to GM PFS1e, then there will be no PFS1e in my lodge (and my nearest other lodges are 4 hour drives away).
This is different than adding Starfinder (of which there is none at my lodge). With Starfinder, they added a whole new campaign. With PFS2e, they're stopping production of one and starting a different one.
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I don't, honestly, see how porting characters over will even work. Unless they plan to release material in PFS2 with the same exact numbers for each tier as they currently do, it will be a couple years before you will actually get to regularly play your level 8+ characters.
Plus, with the amalgamated characters that currently exist, porting them over to PF2 will be nearly impossible. There are just way too many options right now. While the early reports are that the new system provides more options out of the gate than PF1, and there are ways to approximate things like a Magus with the new action/reaction system, there will just simply not be enough options to cover everything your character is race (ancestry) / class / archetype / gear / etc.
Do you really want to wait 5 years until enough material gets published that you can make the same character completely over again? Or do you want to wait 2 years before you can play your high level characters regularly? Or do you want to make your character as a generic version of the current one because all the plethora of rich options aren't available yet?
I'm curious how anyone thinks that 10 years of material can be reliably converted so that its even remotely the same character.
And I'm curious if anyone would be willing to wait 2 years to play their favorite higher level characters.
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The 'how' could be easy: You have a 5th level paladin in PF1. You convert it to a 5th level paladin in PF2.
The challenge would be with classes that don't exist in PF2.
I don't know that everyone that wants some form of conversion is demanding to make a 1:1 port. I think they understand that certain feats and abilities won't exist. However, I'll give you an example of a character that I would like to maintain from PFS1e campaign to PFS2e campaign.
I had an idea for an Elemental Ally archtype Druid. He was my first character played in a special, which happened to be 8-00: The Cosmic Captive. That was great for the character, but then he kind of faded as there wasn't much else left in Season 8 that seemed applicable to him. Then the Concordance of Elements faction was announced, and I'm very excited to play him in the Concordance themed scenarios.
As my first Concordance character, who was there at the very beginning of the Concordance faction, I'd like him to continue the Concordance story line when it transitions to PFS2e campaign. I'm not even worried about the Elemental Ally archetype going away. I now want the character and his achievements within the Concordance faction to matter and to continue in the new stories. Sure, I could make a Newt 2.0 and start over from 1st level. But it would be very nice if somehow the Concordance reputation that he had earned could carry over (and even nicer if the experience could carry over).
And I would be willing to wait 2 years for the content to catch up to my character to play my favorite higher level character (if I had anyone above 3rd).
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
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From my other posts it could easily be inferred that I was also for porting characters over. After some thought... I'm not. In this one instance I actually agree with Tallow. A starting campaign doesn't have enough material to make an effective transfer.
I've worked out effectively 23 real characters. 9 of those are already seekers. Some of those are just looking to ride out their last few games, some of them are brand new. Some could probably create a watered-down version in the new edition, but it wouldn't be the same.
What I do want is to recoup the resources I spent on making these characters. Give me back whatever boons I used on the character, let me transfer those to the new edition, shuffle them around and trade them, and apply them to new 2nd ed characters. Because I earned those, and taking them away is not fair.
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
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From my other posts it could easily be inferred that I was also for porting characters over. After some thought... I'm not. In this one instance I actually agree with Tallow. A starting campaign doesn't have enough material to make an effective transfer.
I've worked out effectively 23 real characters. 9 of those are already seekers. Some of those are just looking to ride out their last few games, some of them are brand new. Some could probably create a watered-down version in the new edition, but it wouldn't be the same.
What I do want is to recoup the resources I spent on making these characters. Give me back whatever boons I used on the character, let me transfer those to the new edition, shuffle them around and trade them, and apply them to new 2nd ed characters. Because I earned those, and taking them away is not fair.
Specifically that's referring to race boons. If I have a boon for a merfolk now, let me use it on a new merfolk as soon as they're published. Asking for my random weapon training boon or something is a bit much.