Great ship or great maneuverability?


Advice


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Which would generally work out better: always running a starship at max tier, or piloting a starship 1 or 2 tiers below your level so that you always beat the maneuver DCs? I imagine both would have quite the impact on encounters.


Generally speaking, you want the Build Points (and resistance to enemy maneuvers, like Taunt), and to have specced yourself out to beat the DCs despite the higher tier. There are inflection points in the math, though - not only does your hull get more hp at level 4 and every 4 levels after that, your BP per level goes up as level goes up. I don't have a bottled pattern for you, but the tl;dr is that how many BP you're giving up with your proposal depends a lot on the level in question. It's also the case that some ship actions are more valuable than others - for example, it's typically not going to be worth downgrading yourself for Demand, given how trivial Encourage is. On the other hand, it is absolutely worth downgrading your tier to avoid needing to rely on an external bonus to pull a maneuver off - you don't want to end up consuming a computer bonus you didn't have to before, only because you up-tiered, nerfing your resultant checks you used to use the computer on, like Gunnery.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ih2-W_ByM2sv6J3YzagckUA-y_XZZkTqUqQ imahHMQ8/edit?usp=sharing

I just made this to test some space combat theories. Page one lets you put in the states for two different ships (I do two different Tiers but with the same crews). The put in the other tabs the other ships stats. It should be plug and play. Let me know what you think and what I missed (I know I missed somethings).


Ravingdork wrote:
Which would generally work out better: always running a starship at max tier, or piloting a starship 1 or 2 tiers below your level so that you always beat the maneuver DCs? I imagine both would have quite the impact on encounters.

I would think you would want a current vessel. If dropping it 1-2 tiers is the difference between you making your rolls reliably and not making them I would think you would want a better pilot making the rolls.

Assuming a ship with at +1-+2 from maneuverability and a good computer adding to your piloting checks as needed you can easily get a +3-4 every turn to a piloting check from the ship itself and possibly a boost from a Captain as well on top of that.

I somehow doubt that the ships pilot will not have a high dex, max ranks in piloting and probably the Ace Pilot Theme so making those rolls should be relatively reliable. Dropping a few tiers would only change the DC 1-3 points while denying you of at LEAST 20 or possibly a lot more BP on your ship.


Has someone calc'd a tier 20 explorer? At max points can you fully load the best in all areas for such a ship, or do you still have to pick and choose. I figure mostly everything will be based on Power Limitations, which also have upper limits based on initial size (putting in another power generator).


Garrett Larghi wrote:

Linkified Spreadsheet for da Lazy orcs in the room.

I just made this to test some space combat theories.

Quote:
Has someone calc'd a tier 20 explorer? At max points can you fully load the best in all areas for such a ship, or do you still have to pick and choose. I figure mostly everything will be based on Power Limitations, which also have upper limits based on initial size (putting in another power generator).

I've played around a lot with Nickela's Starship Build Calculator (found Here).

I can say that the math works out better on a Transport or an Oma than an Explorer, but I've done both at various levels (including 20). At some levels BP are tighter than PCU and others the inverse, but you can usually play around with stuff to get something that looks like it would work.


Losobal wrote:
Has someone calc'd a tier 20 explorer? At max points can you fully load the best in all areas for such a ship, or do you still have to pick and choose. I figure mostly everything will be based on Power Limitations, which also have upper limits based on initial size (putting in another power generator).

Even at level 20, you can't afford to fully bling out, but due to how the action economies work, pursuing maximum guns becomes questionable, regardless. Some ship aspects (shields and sensors, especially) are far, far more valuable to max out than others (e.g. maxing out your armor is not only expensive in BP, you also pay a hefty Turning Radius and Target Lock tax).


With some recent fiddling, using various online starfinder ship builders (James Turner in this case) I believe I see that smaller ships have a max tier cap in terms of real effectiveness of builds.

Like, if you make a:

Ringworks Wanderer (Tier 20)

Small shuttle

Speed 10; Maneuverability perfect (turn 0); Drift 4

AC 39; TL 45

HP 60; DT n/a; CT 12

Shields Superior 600 (forward 150, port 150, starboard 150, aft 150)

Attack (Forward) linked coilguns (4d4)

Attack (Turret) linked light torpedo launchers (2d8)

Power Core(s) Pulse Prismatic (300 PCU); Drift Engine Signal Superior; Systems advanced long-range sensors, crew quarters (common), mk 8 armor, mk 15 defences, mk 10 duonode computer (tier 10); Expansion Bays cargo hold (2), passenger seating

Modifiers +10 any two checks per round, +4 Computers, +2 Piloting

you're still about 15 power open, and 520ish build points still open. The power core is the hard limit, due to no option to add another core on a frame that small. Its also restricted on weapon size. You could still add another 15 bp of guns/etc tho. I just did linked coil guns and turret linked light torpedoes. Armor is highest it can go without impacting turn rate.

In such a way, the effective max as far as I can see for something of the same size is 'tier 15' or so. you can't really fit much more than 500 Bp in a small frame. Note in my example I didn't do anything with expansion bays or computer anti-hack/etc stuff, but I don't think that'd kick you that far over 500 even if you maxxed everything.

Similar seems to hold for Tiny ships (fighter and smaller). Their power core is the biggest limitation, reducing the max possible shields in the neighborhood of the 480s. I put in a similar linked coilgun/linked turret torp launcher thing too. You still have another 15 power to play with.

On the flipside, you can't really make a lower tier 'big hull' ship since something bigger than a cruiser starts eating into your BP by 100 or more. You can't even really afford a bare naked dreadnought hull until tier 8, at the Tyrant actually seems the lowest you can go and make it workable at tier 16. You could probably go tier 15 or so, but I'd probably strip the capital grade weapons for cheaper heavy ones.


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Losobal wrote:
With some recent fiddling, using various online starfinder ship builders (James Turner in this case) I believe I see that smaller ships have a max tier cap in terms of real effectiveness of builds.

Mainly due to being limited to light weapons. Although the hard cap of 300 PCU from the power core will also play a factor, the lack of damage compared to heavy weapons will be apparent even more quickly.

I haven't spec'ed a level 20 explorer, but I have done so for a level 16 version.

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