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I'm going to play my 14th level Human Abyssal Sorcerer for the first time in three years this weekend (in All for Immortality). I need to pick a single known 7th level spell. I'll get Greater Teleportation as a bloodline spell at 15th level.
Limited Wish?
Mostly, he's a generalist and fairly flexible as a caster. His CHA is only 24 (with a +6 headband), so save DCs aren't fantastic. But he has a Ring of Spell Knowledge IV, a Mnemonic Vestment, the Versatile Spontaneity feat, and a Blessed Book that I'm going to fill with lots of stuff. Plus several scrolls, including several Cleric spells (14 WIS) and a +25 UMD. All of which allows him to pull a lot off as needed.
Also interested in any newer lower level spells I should check out to put in the Blessed Book. Since he hasn't been played since October of 2014, a lot of new material has come out.
Current spells known are:
0 - Acid Splash, Detect Magic, Disrupt Undead, Mage Hand, Message, Light, Prestidigitation, Read Magic, Resistance
1 - Burning Hands, Cause Fear(B), Chill Touch*, Feather Fall, Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Prot. from Evil*, Shield, Shocking Grasp, Snowball, Vanish
2 - Alter Self, Bull's Strength(B), False Life, Glitterdust, Scorching Ray, See Invisibility, Spectral Hand, Spider Climb
3 - Dispel Magic, Displacement, Fly, Haste, Rage(B), Summon Monster III, Slow
4 - Dimension Door, Dragon's Breath, Emergency Force Sphere, Enervation, Greater False Life, Greater Invisibility, Phantasmal Killer, Stoneskin(B)
5 - Dismissal(B), Telekinesis, Wall of Force, Waves of Fatigue
6 - Cold Ice Strike, Flesh to Stone, Greater Dispel Magic, Transformation(B)
7- ????
* Page of Spell Knowledge, (B) Bloodline Spell
Feats - Combat Casting, Empower Spell(B), Eschew Materials(B), Great Fortitude(B), Improved Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative, Intensify Spell, Quicken Spell, Spell Penetration, Toughness, Versatile Spontaneity
He mostly blasts with Dragon's Breath and Snowball, sometimes Intensified, sometimes Quickened.
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I thought about Greater Shadow Conjuration. I'm worried the lowish Will Save DC (24) will make it less worthwhile.
I did also wonder about picking up a higher level Summon Monster. The only one I have right now is III, which isn't terribly useful at this level. Not in combat, anyway. I could swap out something I don't use that often, like Telekinesis or Wall of Force, and pick up Summon Monster V, though.
After a discussion on Discord, I'm leaning toward Prismatic Spray. It's got the same save DC issue, but hits multiple people, so there's a better chance it sticks on someone.
I have Waves of Fatigue already, so if I take Waves of Exhaustion, I'd definitely swap that out for a different 6th level spell.
Mass Invisibility and Mass Fly - If either of those really become necessary, I can spam cast the lower level versions. I have fly as a known spell, and I can put invisibility into the Ring of Spell Knowledge long enough to cast it on everyone.
Greater Polymorph is a great spell. I'm thinking of the group that will be going with me, though, and I don't see any of them taking me up on it. The martials are a Magus, who uses Monstrous Physique himself, a Barbarian Alchemist, who usually enlarges himself, and an Arcane Archer. There's also a Cleric and another Wizard. I just don't see any of those characters wanting to be a dragon or something else covered by the spell.
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Ok, the Wizard in the group uses Prismatic Spray. I’ll take a closer look at Greater Shadow Conjuration. It would add to the versatility of the character, which is kind of his main thing at this point, since he’s not great at any one thing.
Are there any newer spells I should be looking at? I’m not caught up on the latest player companions to know if there’s anything good in there. I’d have to buy a book to use it, but I’ve got a gift certificate I could use.
Greater Shadow Conjuration is a fine choice. I tend to dislike that flavor of spell because it leads to analysis paralysis, but that's a matter of personal preference. It's still plenty powerful.
As you level up, I'd like to throw a couple of other spells out there for consideration. There are times when single target control is a boon, and grasping hand is awfully versatile:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/g/grasping-hand
The power may not be sky high, but it gives you the option to restrain NPCs, shove 'em off a ledge, or get out of combat free (don't forget that cover means you won't be taking attacks of opportunity). Not as flashy as some of the other options, but I find that I'm always happy to have it active.
Another to keep in mind is project image:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/project-image
Combo it with greater invisibility and you can draw a lot of attacks, potentially turning a deadly encounter into a cakewalk.
Finally, when you hit 15th next level, you really ought to pick up that Summon Monster spell. Your Added Summonings bloodline power makes it the go-to choice. Nothing quite as cool as getting two fiendish brachiosauruses for the price of one!
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Yeah, the bloodline power does make summoning more attractive.
Is grasping hand that much superior to telekinesis. I mean, the big advantage is that it doesn't require concentration, but the CMB roll to grapple will only be +5 better.
Telekinesis CMB=CL+CHA Bonus=14+6=+20
Grasping Hand CMB=CL+10(STR)+1(Size)=+25
The grasping hand can also target invisible creatures, but it also can be destroyed with HP damage. I'm not sure it's worth a spell slot 2 levels higher.
Project Image is a nice one. I don't know if I'd take it as a known spell, but having it available in my spellbook would be worthwhile. It doesn't hurt to have grasping hand there, either. I just feel like there might be higher priorities, given telekinesis does most of what it does.
Is grasping hand that much superior to telekinesis. I mean, the big advantage is that it doesn't require concentration, but the CMB roll to grapple will only be +5 better.
Grasping Hand is a very different spell from telekinesis. The +5 to CMB is nice, but as you say, it's concentration that's the big game changer:
"The spell lasts as long as you concentrate on it. Concentrating to maintain a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Anything that could break your concentration when casting a spell can also break your concentration while you’re maintaining one, causing the spell to end. See concentration.
You can’t cast a spell while concentrating on another one. Some spells last for a short time after you cease concentrating."
What that means in real terms is that telekinesis saves spells slots, becoming your action every round. Grasping hand can play that role too, but it also allows you to trade spells slots for power, doing its thing while you continue casting.
More to the point, enervation and flesh to stone seem to be your single target offensive actions. They don't work on undead, so you'll want another vector of attack. Grasping hand provides that.
Finally, I should note that both Treantmonk and Dazaras both rate the spell highly:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmonks-lab/test/
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o68b?A-Quick-Guide-to-Sorcerer-Spell-Selection
Your initial thought of limited wish is very very powerful. Especially for a sorcerer.
One very powerful use is to use limited wish to cast “geas/quest”. This cuts the casting time down from 10 minutes to one standard action. Geas/quest has no save. NO SAVE.
And if you read the description carefully you note that the target must do what you compel them to do if they are able. They only “get” to take the penalties instead IF they are incapable of completing your directions (for example, stuck in a jail cell).
If worded correctly and thoroughly, it is an auto win against most enemies.
This auto win is moderated by the fact that it costs 1500 gold per cast. But if used judiciously, it is extremely extremely powerful. No save auto wins are hard to come by.
Just be wary of spell resistance, and use Dweomer’s Essence if you really need the spell to stick.
My sorcerer would use this trick on particularly powerful enemies and then would marrionette possess them and use their bodies instead. It is much much safer to adventure using someone else’s body.
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Grasping Hand - I don't dislike the spell. I just don't think I'd spend a known spell on both it and Telekinesis. I think you can still cast quickened spells while concentrating, unless I've missed a rule somewhere. At any rate, grappling is a tactic I'd mainly use against a spell caster, and they aren't likely to be around long once they're grappled (from attacks by the rest of the group). I get what you're saying. I'd be more likely to take Grasping Hand on an NPC single caster or caster with minions that has to fend off a group. With 5 other characters around me, I just don't expect things to live long enough for it to matter.
I have options against Undead. Scorching Ray is 12d6 with all three rays, and I can Empower it. Dragon's Breath caps at 12D6, but lets me pick shape and element type. I could Intensify it if I want to, but an extra 2D6 doesn't seem worth it unless the situation is dire. I'm also putting Control Undead into my Blessed Book, so if things get too bad and I haven't used my Mnemonic Vestment yet, I can resort to that. I may also prep a single Disintegrate with Versatile Spontaneity, unless the mission briefing points to something else being useful, since that's likely to get used in any scenario with a big fight.
Limited Wish - Yes, if it weren't for the component cost, I'd go with that. As is, I'm going to put it in the spellbook and keep a diamond around for a single casting, just in case. Again, for potential use with the Mnemonic Vestment.
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Ah, I see the line stating you can't cast a spell while concentrating on another one now. I missed it at the end of the section. That does bump Grasping Hand up a little, but there are still others higher priority for me at that level.
EDIT: Can grasping hand pin a target? Telekinesis calls out that it can, grasping hand doesn't. All the latter says is that it "holds" the target and can't deal damage. If it can pin as well, that would help.
Can grasping hand pin a target? Telekinesis calls out that it can, grasping hand doesn't. All the latter says is that it "holds" the target and can't deal damage. If it can pin as well, that would help.
That's a great big "ask your GM." Same goes for telekinesis really, since it doesn't include language about not being able to harm a creature. By my reading "holds but does not harm" is so far from meaningful game terms that the spell virtually requires interpretation. That said, I think that the "hold but not harm" rule is referencing this line:
"Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple)."
There are four options after that: move, damage, pin, and tie up. By my reading you can do any of that except for damage.
I'll be honest though: A lot of my fondness for grasping hand comes from the "loose interpretation" version of the spell. At that sort of table a generous GM will allow grasping hand to double as a poor man's levitate / plug the leak in the boat / give me a deep tissue massage kind of spell. YMMV.