Why would your homebrew's canon be ruined by three characters? They were killed off. What specifically bothers you about the thought of your continent now?The brother not only attacked the events of the plot, but also undermined the heart of the world, the ideals in which it was conceived. He drove away hope and enthusiasm by treating the best foundational elements of the world as tissue paper to be torn, soiled, and burned. Though the foundation could be repaired, investing in the rebuilding requires the enthusiasm that was stolen.
Precisely this.
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Continue. If you let your world end here, that will be all it will ever be. Just a smoking crater and an open wound affecting your memory of it and now your friend's world. Push on, play more games, build new stories that show that people persevere and that your world keeps turning. I think you owe it to your players to show what they think of the world by having a chance to continue after facing such situations. Maybe by watching how they react, you will realize just how stable your world really was.
There was a episode of Star Trek Voyager where the doctor made himself a holographic family and life on the holo-deck as a way to have a sense of normality (he was a hologram). It was like a perfect Leave It To Beaver episode, good kids, doting wife, etc. To prove that things were tough, a crewmember altered the program so the wife had a job and the doctor had to cook dinner, the daughter was trying out for a rough sport in a class above her own, and the son became enamored with Klingon society and was blaring their music, bringing over disrespectful friends, and playing with weapons. Eventually, the daughter was seriously injured in the game and the doctor couldn't save her, so he ended the program. Until he turned it back on and finished her death and had to deal with his son and wife and face the problem, he was distracted and troubled.
The feeling is gone, the moment lost,the frustration too much to take. My brother's grinning face is on every NPC now. Not rational I know, but it can't be helped.
On the plus side my brother is extremely pissed over his lifetime ban from my campaigns. It's become quite a scene.
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There is so much more going on here than just a game and I really hope that you value your brother more than this game.
Put aside what he's done to your homebrew for now. You can come back to it later, or not.
Please talk to your brother. He must have known you'd worked hard on this continent of yours. He worked diligently to destroy it. Consider the premeditation: He didn't set about wrecking it from the get-go. No, first he adventured the ranger to hero status, giving you the taste and feel of an enjoyable homebrewed campaign world. And then he tore it down.
Why? Just to see it burn? I don't know you and I don't know him and I don't know all of your history together. But you do and I just have this feeling that there is more to it than that.
Did you wrong him in some serious way? I don't mean you took the drumstick at Thanksgiving when you know he likes dark meat: that's just normal sibling rivalry.
I mean like you slept with his wife type wronging. I don't expect an explanation, but I just have a feeling that there is something terribly broken in your relationship with your brother and I hope you love him enough to want to fix that before anything else.
I'm sorry that happened to you. I agree with what many of the others have said - set your world aside for now and come back to it later. Once the emotional distress has passed, you should be able to do something with your world without seeing your brother in every part of it, and you can either work what he did into the story, or erase it if that's what you want.
Sound like victim blaming to me... wait your the brother aren't you!?! devious! I have to give you credit for that one. make a profile so you can discredit your brother complaining about your behavior. To think you would of gotten away with it to if it hadn't been for those pesky kids and their dogs. (ok so their was no pesky kids or dog but the point still stands!)
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Calling someone the brother simply for having an opinion? I'd expect better from you, Mr. Wrong. This profile wasn't just 'made.' M1k31 has existed for some months now. Moreover, a brief look at their Aliases will confirm it since they both did the 'real name for PFS' alias thing that seems so prevalent around here.
This man...
IS ATTEMPTING TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX!
See he has lured you in! Its a very elaborate plot! That why I gave him all those creds for being a genius and even predicting the future.
*very serious posts*
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This pc doesn't have adobe can I just assume its a gif or some such of someone clearing their throat?
...oh, it's a flash gif of a phoenix wright character objecting.
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Ah oh that is fun. I now think he is not the brother but rather a sleeper agent implemented to cause chaos....
Also...
Hail hydra!
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So... In answer to your original question of, has anyone had a similar experience, the answer seems to be a resounding NO. Just about everybody has had bad players, games or groups, but I think if enough time and effort... blood, sweat and tears... has been put into a world, one jackass throwing a temper tantrum and doing stuff that's not in line with his character, hasn't been enough to ruin an entire campaign world. Plenty of good advice has been offered, but it seems like you've made up your mind and killed the campaign (yes YOU, not your brother) because one jerk did some stuff you and the others hated. It sounds like it is actually time for the campaign to die and let someone else DM. Good luck to you and your future games and good luck with your brother. I'm also curious... as someone else asked, how old is your brother? How old are you and your players?
Again, in closing, I believe the answer to your original question is no.
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Can't you just say that those events didn't happen, and move on? It's your setting, after all. I can understand why the session in question was frustrating, but the setting doesn't exist anywhere except for in your mind, it is whatever you say it is, so I don't understand how they could have destroyed it.
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Some people have a psychological need to destroy what others create. I'm not saying that your brother has this, Zolanoteph, but it seems to be something to consider.
As someone who likes to make card houses (not like the kind you see in magic shows at Vegas, but I've managed five stories with a single deck of cards, which ain't nothin'), it's stunning to me how many seemingly otherwise-nice people love nothing more than to topple them over.
And then there's the whole 'serial entertainment with multiple creators' thing, where a new writer/showrunner/storyteller comes in and utterly savages whatever popular characters or settings existed in the franchise before they showed up, as if the popular success of things invented by other people are a personal affront to them. "Themiscrya and those Amazons sure were popular, more so than anything I've ever done... I'll show them! Let's show how badass Steppenwolf is by having him invade there and kill a bunch of them!"
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A bunch of Amazons were killed by a 60's/70's rock group?
It's the comics.
It honestly wouldn't surprise me.
... ranger, established in the previous campaign as an honored war hero, showed psychopathic tendencies for the first time and for no discernable reason.
...
Any similar experiences?
I have had a player turn his ranger psychopathic and (with some assistance) launched a demon assault on the city. Very distasteful.
Why I Don't Do Homebrews, Reason 432: This.You don't homebrew at all? wow we are two very different cloth storage devices sir.
He(or it)is a bag of devouring.
More on the topic, maybe he was a troll wearing a hat of disguise? If he never burned to death, maybe it was the same troll all three times?
Have some new PCs(not including the troll) find the real famous hero, partially eaten by the troll. They must find and destroy the troll and try to find out who, if anyone, he was working for.
You'll get over it. Time changes everything.
Next time don't let a player do that so many times. Seriously, three chances? If a player acts like a d-tard, dies, comes back, and starts acting like it again? Gone. Get out of my house. The rest of us are here to enjoy the realism of our shared fantasy. It's obvious you're here to spread discord, so go away. Problem solved.
Again though, you'll get your mojo back. Just give it time.
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@OP: You're too attached to your campaign. I've pretty much only run homebrews, and every time, relatively early on, my group seems to misunderstand the tone I'm working to set. But you know what? That's okay. It's really not a big deal.
If you're so invested in your own world that the actions of your players, whatever they may be, ruin the world for you, you probably weren't REALLY ready to run your game there. Yeah, the player in question was definitely out of line, but that doesn't mean you stop the game: You just work out the problem with your problem player. Your group now has a very interesting story explaining a shared trauma (which is great for building character and relationships), and you can easily get them back into the mood of the game with a well-done monologue at the beginning of your next session.
Don't overthink it.
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Having had several players over 40+ years decide to scuttle my campaigns, My solution has always been the boulder from the sky. And that player does not get a seat again. Wrecking a world for the pure maliciousness is not merely attacking me as GM, but every other player at the table. And I run the 'boulder' a number of ways, from villains that just happen to involve a super's weaknesses to a cult of 'soul thieves'!
I am too old, ugly and ornery to put up with someone who just wants to be a jackass. Often, I have only had a single night every week or so and I don't babysit donkeys. If a player decides he is superior, he can run the game. I have too many other things to do to put up with another 'CN' twit with delusions of adequacy.
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^Or to put it another way, another CE twit with delusions of neutrality.
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Assumptions that because people are biologically related to you they deserve additional chances and forgiveness even for outright malevolence enable an awful lot of terrible things, and it makes me distinctly uncomfortable to see apologetics for fixing a relationship with a malicious human being just because they are a biological relative.There is so much more going on here than just a game and I really hope that you value your brother more than this game.
I agree.
Why not forgive and simply work to make amends because he's a human being? Relationships are more important than a game. Genetic fraternity has nothing to do with it. :P
On Christmas eve I got really drunk. I explained to my brother for the millionth time That this was an old continent with sentimental value. I explained That I worked on this town, this campaign,these quests and NPC's for months. I told him I didn't think he was capable of comprehending this level of work as a lazy guy who's never worked at anything. But I told him I'd lift the lifetime ban if he admitted he was a (bad word) and a (even worse word).
He wouldn't do it. He said I was being a "b&$~@#$+".
Under sober conditions I never would've even extended the olive branch. Desperate as he is to play again you'd think he'd jump on board, but he just can't admit he's wrong.
The need to reboot my universe is stronger than ever.
Side note: Brother has started making his own sheets. When he found out I might be doing a side campaign he told my best friend That I should let him play because "He has no idea how much work I put into this sheet".
Now I could go and recommend the spiteful path of allowing him in and then immediately dropping a rock on his dude followed by a deadpan "Sucks losing something you put a lot of effort in doesn't it," but frankly that's just throwing in drama at your table and drama at the table doesn't do anyone any good. Just don't bother letting him in and if he presses, tell him to sod off.On Christmas eve I got really drunk. I explained to my brother for the millionth time That this was an old continent with sentimental value. I explained That I worked on this town, this campaign,these quests and NPC's for months. I told him I didn't think he was capable of comprehending this level of work as a lazy guy who's never worked at anything. But I told him I'd lift the lifetime ban if he admitted he was a (bad word) and a (even worse word).
He wouldn't do it. He said I was being a "b!#+*@**".
Under sober conditions I never would've even extended the olive branch. Desperate as he is to play again you'd think he'd jump on board, but he just can't admit he's wrong.
The need to reboot my universe is stronger than ever.
Side note: Brother has started making his own sheets. When he found out I might be doing a side campaign he told my best friend That I should let him play because "He has no idea how much work I put into this sheet".
100%
It's like you stole the words from inside my brain
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Generally speaking I avoid posting in threads like these since by necessity all we have to go by is OP's description - we're not getting the full picture, so any advice we can offer is potentially flawed. However, getting hammered (on christmas eve, no less) and demanding that someone call themselves (bad word) and (even worse word) is prrrrobably not what I'd call extending the olive branch.
At this point I'd be really interested in hearing what your brother's perspective is.
I think getting someone to admit they were a (use imagination herr) is a big deal. Especially when youre trying to get back into a game you destroyed. I can't even imagine being that much of a weenie.
Just keep going. Time skip if you must.
And never have the entirety of a campaign setting hinge on one character/player.
I'm watching Elton John perform,"I'm still standing."
Fix your campaign. If you let him play, let him play an evil monster only.
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Plenty of good advice has been offered, but it seems like you've made up your mind and killed the campaign (yes YOU, not your brother) because one jerk did some stuff you and the others hated.
This. Honestly, we've all had bad players. And we've all had players who derailed plot or screwed with npcs. I myself had a homebrew campaign that began with a party of criminals. Their options were to help resurrect an old god, or face the gallows. One character said he wouldn't do it, and then stated that he'd try to kill anyone who did. LITERALLY five minutes in and my plot's at a standstill.
Bad players happen.
But it really doesn't seem like that's the issue here. It seems like you aren't treating this as a setting. You're treating it as a story that you've already planned out. So when a player does something that messes with your plan, the whole thing is ruined, setting, story, plot and all.
A setting is just that. A setting. It is a big world full of people and places and events that are all there for one reason: for the characters to interact with. If the entire setting is destroyed because of a character's interactions with it, then it wasn't a setting to begin with. It was a story. Someone earlier recommended that you may want to simply write a novel, and that's my advice as well. Pathfinder and D&D are collaborative storytelling. Every person at the table gets to tug the story in a different direction. If you throw out the entire thing because someone went in a direction you don't like, then you really shouldn't be doing collaborative storytelling. You should be writing novels and books where you always get to decide how characters interact with your world.
Your brother did not "destroy" your world. You scrapped it. Your brother did not "forever change the story of the world" you simply had a story in mind, and expected the players to follow it. And honestly? As someone who has spent hundreds of hours building a campaign setting, you didn't build a setting. You built a very nice model that people could look at and enjoy, but never touch.
You had a problem player, but he had a problem GM.
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Plenty of good advice has been offered, but it seems like you've made up your mind and killed the campaign (yes YOU, not your brother) because one jerk did some stuff you and the others hated.This. Honestly, we've all had bad players. And we've all had players who derailed plot or screwed with npcs. I myself had a homebrew campaign that began with a party of criminals. Their options were to help resurrect an old god, or face the gallows. One character said he wouldn't do it, and then stated that he'd try to kill anyone who did. LITERALLY five minutes in and my plot's at a standstill.
Bad players happen.
But it really doesn't seem like that's the issue here. It seems like you aren't treating this as a setting. You're treating it as a story that you've already planned out. So when a player does something that messes with your plan, the whole thing is ruined, setting, story, plot and all.
A setting is just that. A setting. It is a big world full of people and places and events that are all there for one reason: for the characters to interact with. If the entire setting is destroyed because of a character's interactions with it, then it wasn't a setting to begin with. It was a story. Someone earlier recommended that you may want to simply write a novel, and that's my advice as well. Pathfinder and D&D are collaborative storytelling. Every person at the table gets to tug the story in a different direction. If you throw out the entire thing because someone went in a direction you don't like, then you really shouldn't be doing collaborative storytelling. You should be writing novels and books where you always get to decide how characters interact with your world.
Your brother did not "destroy" your world. You scrapped it. Your brother did not "forever change the story of the world" you simply had a story in mind, and expected the players to follow it. And honestly? As someone who has spent hundreds of hours building a campaign setting, you didn't build a...
You forget this isn't just a "problem player" this is a sibling. To quote Zazu "There's one in every family". I've got a brother, both my parents have multiple sibs. My hubby has several sibs, and comes from a big family.
This isn't a player thing. This is a SIBLING thing. This isn't a player going off the rails, it's a sibling being a complete and utter s~@% by taking a baseball bat to a model plane that you worked on, and they likely helped on all summer long when you were ten. Why did he wreck it, because he wanted to and because he wanted to see the pain on their sib's face when they saw it.
Family knows what things drive us mad, and will use it to poke buttons. When a family member is a jackass, things are even worse.
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Let's try an analogy...
I have a friend who works as a pre-school teacher. He's a great guy, and he's very good at his job. One day a clearly upset mother called and asked for a meeting. In a meeting later that day she confided that her daughter (let's call her Anne) had come home from kindergarten crying yesterday, and said that she didn't want to go back because none of the other kids wanted to play with her. Apparently this had been going on for a few weeks. The mum was clearly distraught that her daughter was being bullied, and wanted to move Anne to another preschool. My friend was shocked that bullying was going on underneath his very nose without him noticing, plead with the mother to keep Anne in school for now and he promised he'd get right on it. Bullying is a big deal in Norway so the kindergarten had various resources he could activate, and he pulled out all the stops - a bullying intervention team was organized, a child psychologist was contacted etc. They followed Anne closely over the next month to map out the bullying, figure out who the problem children were, and put a stop to it.
A while later he set up a meeting with the mum to present their findings: Anne wasn't being bullied. If anything, she was a bit of a bully herself. Anne wanted to dictate what games were played, what kids were allowed to play them, and would sulk and go play by herself if the other kids didn't agree to her demands. Anne wasn't being ostracized, her isolation was self-imposed.
Now if the mother had gone with her first instinct and moved her daughter to a different kindergarten immediately, Anne would have been uprooted, dropped in a new environment where she didn't know any kids, and probably continue the arguably antisocial personality pattern she'd started. Instead, with some special attention and gentle correction, Anne was once again happy and playing nicely with her friends. The solution to the problem wasn't to indulge Anne, but to help her realize that if she wanted to play with the other kids, she needed to accommodate them as well.
I always think of this story when I see threads like this where one person clearly feels hurt and offended over a grievance, and comes to the forum to seek support, confirmation, and consolation. Usually the forum (being full of nice people) will respond with tons of well wishes and the majority will likely agree with the offended poster that whatever happened was horrible and unfair and he's entirely in the right to be offended. I wouldn't be surprised if a few times two players in the same group have posted two wildly diverging versions of the same argument in separate threads, and the forum agreed with both of them.
Now, I'm not saying Zolanoteph is Anne or that Zolanoteph's brother is the other kids, I doubt the situation is that clear-cut. Siblings tend to have complicated relationships in general, I certainly didn't get along with my sister until I was well into my 20s. It is entirely possible that he's cursed with a 26 year old brother who's full of spite and bitterness, and enjoys nothing more than s%&~ting on other people's creations for no reason. God knows there are plenty of bastards out there. If that's the case you have my sympathy because that's a horrible situation for all of you.
But it's also possible that there's something going on here that Zolanoteph is either unaware of, or unwilling to share with us. Maybe Zolanoteph isn't so open to players wanting to play a different kind of campaign than what he envisioned, and his brother was feeling frustrated by a 'campaign' that was really more of a novel where the PCs were kept firmly on rails. Maybe Zolanoteph's brother wanted to make his own PC and wasn't crazy about having to play premade ones. Obviously his actions were a s~$&show, but I find it very odd that he apparently decided to burn down a campaign setting he'd previously productively participated in for literally no reason.
I also find it interesting that after Zolanoteph decided to step down as DM another player took up the role, and had no objection to letting Z's brother play in his campaign. Based on the Christmas eve story, I feel pretty confident that there are communication issues on both sides. Approaching someone and saying that what they did hurt your feelings is constructive - approaching someone (drunk) and picking a fight by demanding they admit they're an asshat, probably not.
That's why I'd really like to hear your brother's side of the story.
Barring that happening, I think the best way to solve this is for you and your brother to sit down and talk about what happened like adults - you can and should say that what he did hurt you, but you also need to listen to him if he chooses to express why he did what he did and how he feels. Don't make demands of him, instead keep calm and try to understand his position. If you don't think you'll be able to keep your cool in that conversation, try to write him an email explaining how you feel instead - writing can be a good way to work out how you feel and you can look over the language to make sure it doesn't get too aggressive or antagonizing. I'd be happy to help you draft it if you think it'll help. :)
CANON - not Cannon ... two very different things.
Still, I feel for you.
good gaming to you all