[PFS] Want to make form-shifting character...

[Wei Ji the Learner]

I want to build a character that is capable of shifting forms several times per day without losing effectiveness or ability to communicate effectively.

Was holding out hope for Shifter, but it seems to not be anything like advertised.

Currently the options for form-shifting are varied but nothing quite seems to match up to Druid as far as utility.

Is this a misconception on my part?

What would folks suggest?

[Angel Hunter D]

A psychic kitsune with Realistic Likeness and Fox Form? Not nearly as versatile as a druid but it's unlimited and you don't really lose anything.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

Already have a kitsune with RL, but hadn't considered Fox Form for, so it's worth looking at.

I was wondering more about classes/archetypes that could provide the same level of shapechange capability...

[cavernshark]

What do you want to do in those forms and how long do you want to stay in them?

You know the answer is going to be that no one shape changes like a druid. Base wildshape and years of feat and archetype support see to that. But its hard to offer alternatives not knowing why you want to shift. Combat forms are going to be much different than most utility shifting.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

Okay, backing up a bit because that was a vague starter and apologies for it.

I had a great idea for an Ulfen Bearlibrarbian (Mooncursed Bear Barbarian) but I wanted to have them able to be a bear for longer than rage rounds eventually.

Unfortunately, Shifter doesn't work that well for it, so I'm trying to figure out other options to make it a reality.

[Grandlounge]

Ultimate wilderness has a good vigilante for that. Going off memory they get hunter casting and a patron (strength for divine favor), and wildshape. It called the avenging beast.

I have a totem skald build that works well for this. You gain a raging song and wild shape. Druid vestment and ring of eloquence will let you communicate but don't dump wis your going to want natural spell.

These are both good options if the question is do they hit the utility of a druid the answer is no. The vigilante will be awesome in combat but only gets beast shape 1 so utility is less. The skald get heroism, saving finale, haste, good hope, flexible fury, shares a rage song/power has fast healing 6, there is a lot of utility here but all very different than a druid and they only wildshape into one form.

Alchemist can be an amazing transforming characters but it is not an all day thing. The feral hunter does a good job but I think I like the vigilante more despite having the weaker wildshape (this is a feel not an optimization thing).

[Chess Pwn]

Nothing I'm aware of allows for many shifts in a day.

[David knott 242]

Chess Pwn wrote:

Nothing I'm aware of allows for many shifts in a day.

Just racial Change Shape abilities (such as those possessed by Kitsunes and Skinwalkers) and related feats. At-will shapeshifting as a class ability seems to be limited to being a capstone ability at best.

[PossibleCabbage]

I'm genuinely curious why "freely shifting between forms, none of which are themselves especially powerful" is a thing the developers appear to avoid. That seems more of a "thing that is powerful for fulfilling the fantasy of a character" than "thing that is potentially game-breaking."

[cavernshark]

It might take some work and comes online a bit later, but the Shaman Shapeshifter Hex allows you to, for minutes per level per day, shift as Alter Self and eventually Beast Shape I at 8 and Beast Shape II at 12. They also have a lot of useful spells to help boost your form (barkskin, bone fists, frostbite, etc.), access to other hexes (witch hex: flight), and spells like Beastspeak which will help you communicate in that form. And you're a 9th level caster to boot. Mammoth spirit gives you a scaling enhancement bonus to strength at 8 and Battle would give you rounds of bane on a single weapon, either might pair decently with a combat form. It's not druid level versatility, but it might suffice.

Dark Tapestry Oracles have a revelation that can be picked up at 3 that works similarly to the Shapeshifter Hex. You'd have access to Beast Shape I at 7, though for similar durations (minutes per level per day). Lunar Oracles have a similar ability in Form of the Beast with immediate access to Beast Shape I and access to Beast Shape II at 9 and eventually Beast Shape III at 11 (even further if you go past that). Still a full caster too and the power lasts for hours per day. The abundant revelations feat would allow you to extend it to multiple uses per day. Oracles don't have beastspeak and don't qualify for natural spell or wildspeech, so it might be a little more challenging, but it's there as an option.

[Edit]: I didn't spec it out fully, but there might be potential in a Lunar Oracle with Form of the Beast eventually going into Rage Prophet? Get some of the barbarian feel while supporting the oracle chassis a bit.

[Grandlounge]

Ravener Hunter inquisitor is also an interesting option with the lunar mystery.

[Rory]

Transmutation Wizard

Level 1-2: Enlarge or Reduce Person (okay, not quite changing shape), 5X Alter Self scroll for 2PP (you did say PFS)

Level 3-4: Alter Self (4+ times per day with INT 14 and arcane bond)

Level 5-6: Beast Shape I = Bear Form! (3+ times per day with INT 14), Monstrous Physique I (to cast while shifted)

Level 7+ = LOTS of shifting per day (3x 4th level spell slots, 3x 3rd level spell slots, 4X 2nd level spell slots)

Start out with a healthy physical stat array.

S: 18 D: 14 C: 14 I: 14 W: 10 Ch: 8 (20 pt human, +1 extra STR from transmutation wizard at level 1)

Arcane Bond = Amulet of Mighty Fist - enchanted at half cost.

Use some spells for longer duration defenses (Mage Armor, False Life, Ablative Barrier, etc.)

Option: Take a level of unchained barbarian at 6th character level for rage as well as Furious on the arcane bone to punch thru DR vs. silver/cold iron as early as 6th level.

[pauljathome]

Either Beastmorph or Metamorph Alchemist might work, depending upon exactly what you're looking for.

[nighttree]

I'm trying to do something similar (I think)....I basically want Mystique (from X-men)...so mostly Alter Self oriented, but it's OK to move into the realm of Monstrous Humanoids.

So far the best options I am seeing are

Skinshaper Druid....this has everything I want...and actually more than I want (no need for animal companion or 9 levels of spell casting)....but you have to go four levels before it even starts to come on line....which is really rough.

Metamorph Alchemist is actually looking like the better option, although I will probably have to multiclass to get my combat abilities up to were I want them to be.

Intrigue Oracle is also an option....although it's an illusion effect at early levels. But it is at will, so if I can figure out enough ways to max out Disguise and the will save at early levels...it may still work.

Decisions....decisions....:P

[Slyme]

If you want Mystique, go with a Kitsune and the Realistic Likeness feat...preferably with the Fast Shifter alternate racial trait. After that, whatever class has your preferred combat style.

[Cyrad]

Feral hunter

Material manipulator mesmerist gains the ability to alter appearance instead of getting touch treatment.

[Dragonborn3]

Agathiel Vigilante is an amazing (if limited) Shapeshifter. I expect it and many other shapeshfting options will be nerfed in typical Paizo style now that the Shifter is out.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

...that actually looks like a better shifter than Shifter.

...what the heck?

[Kaouse]

I think the Agathiel Vigilante is restricted to a single creature, and doesn't get the ability score bonuses of the Beast Shape line. But you're right, it's a better Shifter because it can choose which abilities to gain from up to Beast Shape IV on demand.

[Kerney]

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

Already have a kitsune with RL,

You have a kitsume in real life? I didn't know they existed for real! I want to meet them! Can you post pictures? I'm pretty sure they could get free tickets to Gen Con or Paizo Con.

More seriously,the whimsy oracle or lunar oracle might work well for the kitsune.

[PhD. Okkam]

Maybe, as already stated earlier, take Kitsune and the Realistic Likeness feat and class Feral hunter?

[Cyrad]

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

...that actually looks like a better shifter than Shifter.

...what the heck?

^ Everyone's reaction to the shifter, except reversed.

[nighttree]

Slyme wrote:

If you want Mystique, go with a Kitsune and the Realistic Likeness feat...preferably with the Fast Shifter alternate racial trait. After that, whatever class has your preferred combat style.

That definitely looks like what I have been wanting....thanks for that.

Don't suppose there has ever been a formal FAQ on some of the disputed parts ?

[Cyrad]

nighttree wrote:

Slyme wrote:

If you want Mystique, go with a Kitsune and the Realistic Likeness feat...preferably with the Fast Shifter alternate racial trait. After that, whatever class has your preferred combat style.

That definitely looks like what I have been wanting....thanks for that.

Don't suppose there has ever been a formal FAQ on some of the disputed parts ?

What disputed parts?

[nighttree]

Cyrad wrote:

nighttree wrote:

Slyme wrote:

If you want Mystique, go with a Kitsune and the Realistic Likeness feat...preferably with the Fast Shifter alternate racial trait. After that, whatever class has your preferred combat style.

That definitely looks like what I have been wanting....thanks for that.

Don't suppose there has ever been a formal FAQ on some of the disputed parts ?

What disputed parts?

What the feat actually allows has evidently been in dispute for a long time.

[Cyrad]

nighttree wrote:

Cyrad wrote:

nighttree wrote:

Slyme wrote:

If you want Mystique, go with a Kitsune and the Realistic Likeness feat...preferably with the Fast Shifter alternate racial trait. After that, whatever class has your preferred combat style.

That definitely looks like what I have been wanting....thanks for that.

Don't suppose there has ever been a formal FAQ on some of the disputed parts ?

What disputed parts?

What the feat actually allows has evidently been in dispute for a long time.

It's not very well written, but when you assume human form, you can take on the appearance of any human you encountered instead of the static appearance you normally have.

[nighttree]

Cyrad wrote:

It's not very well written, but when you assume human form, you can take on the appearance of any human you encountered instead of the static appearance you normally have.

That's one of the interpretations I have seen on the boards ;)

[Wei Ji the Learner]

Kerney wrote:

You have a kitsume in real life? I didn't know they existed for real! I want to meet them! Can you post pictures? I'm pretty sure they could get free tickets to Gen Con or Paizo Con.

Thankfully, no.

The amount of madness and chaos that would be unleashed by just one is enough to discourage any stray thought of such a thing existing. Some people may appreciate living in la vida loca, I prefer a bit more stability in my space-time.

RL = Realistic Likeness.