Path of War Prestige Classes - Swap Maneuvers at even levels?

[Sir Dragoon]

Simply put, do the Path of War Prestige classes receive the ability to swap maneuvers at even initiator levels like the base classes?

It doesn't state it anywhere directly, but it would seem like they would be severely gimped in up-to-date maneuvers known if not.

Back in the Book of 9 swords, I don't believe the Prestige classes had the ability to swap maneuvers.

"Q: Can you switch maneuvers that you know for ones that you don't know?
A: Yes. The crusader, swordsage, and warblade can trade one maneuver known for another at certain levels (see their respective descriptions in the Tome of Battle). (Prestige classes that grant maneuvers can't trade maneuvers known.)"

I think they might have carried the same concept over to Prestige classes in Path of War too, but I'm not certain. What does everyone think?

[Baval]

Yes, assuming he got his maneuvering from a base class and didnt buy in with feats.

If you look close at the swapping line, example:

"Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even numbered initiator level thereafter (6th, 8th, 10th, and so on), the nightmare can choose to learn a new maneuver in place of one he already knows. In effect, he loses the old maneuver in exchange for the new one. "

Youll see it references every even initiator level, not in this case Dread level or class level or simply level. So if you get initiator levels from other sources it still triggers the line.

[Sir Dragoon]

Baval, I know that's how it's written, but strictly by how it's written, you could just take 1 level of one of the classes, like Zealot for instance, and then take the rest of your levels in Cleric for instance, and still continue to be able to swap old maneuvers for higher level ones as you advance in cleric levels. That doesn't seem right.

[Baval]

Sir Dragoon wrote:

Baval, I know that's how it's written, but strictly by how it's written, you could just take 1 level of one of the classes, like Zealot for instance, and then take the rest of your levels in Cleric for instance, and still continue to be able to swap old maneuvers for higher level ones as you advance in cleric levels. That doesn't seem right.

Edit: I made a mistake, I havent used PoW in a while. Cleric increases your initiator level by 1/2 per level, and separate classes stack. Therefor, yes you could take a 1 level dip but you would have a small pool of maneuvers and a relatively low initiator level.

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Cleric does not advance initiator level, so it wont proc the line as youll never get an even leveled initiator level (it will be stuck at 1) and even if you did the max level of maneuvers you could take would likewise be stuck at 1.

Likewise, other initiating base classes start their own separate initiator level, and so wont proc each other.

Prestige classes however increase the initiator level that you were before joining, so they will proc it.

[Sir Dragoon]

That's incorrect, Baval. All classes add initiator levels at the rate of 1/2.

Quoted from System Use:

"When you gain levels in a class that does not grant martial maneuvers, your understanding of the Path of War still increases. A well-trained, highly skilled fighter has the basic combat training needed to master martial maneuvers. If you are a multiclass martial disciple, and you learn a new maneuver by attaining a new level in a martial disciple class, determine your initiator level by adding together your level in that class + 1/2 your levels in all other classes (treating racial Hit Dice as class levels for these purposes).

[Baval]

Yes, I went and looked it over and edited my post as you were posting.

Taking a 1 level dip will net you a small pool of maneuvers and a relatively low initiator level, but it will still proc the retraining every 2 (or in the case of cleric 4) levels.

In addition without feats you would never learn higher level stances

[Sir Dragoon]

I've re-read one of the rules in the System Use and am inclined to agree that all the initiator classes DO indeed get to swap maneuvers even if they take a class in something else.

"Retraining: Initiators can retrain their known maneuvers and stances; this retraining takes 2 days per level of the new maneuver and requires a trainer who can initiate the desired maneuver or enter the desired stance. The new maneuver or stance must be part of the initiator’s available disciplines for the class, and must be of an equal or lower level to the maneuver or stance it replaces. Note that this is unrelated to the ability of initiators to swap maneuvers for higher-level ones at certain initiator levels; that swap represents the initiator’s evolving style of combat, does not require a trainer, cannot replace stances, and can happen only once at a given level."

The fact that they mention the statement in bold can only mean it's referring to a multi-class initiator whom had their ability "proc" from multiple initiator classes at once, which can only be possible if the ability did indeed "proc" from taking a class other than the base initiator class.

[Baval]

aye even I missed that evidence but its strong evidence