I would like to build a PFS legal Kitsune, and specifically want to use the Spirit Oni Master feat.
I am looking at ranger or Bloodrager primarily.
If I go ranger I will want to take the natural attack combat style. If Bloodrager I want the shapeshifter bloodline.
I like the fortune finder archetype for the ranger. Not set on the bloodrager.
I do like the spirit totem rage powers if they can be fit in.
I am not sold on strength or dexterity build yet
Guide Ranger is a good fit for a PFS DEX-based natural attack build, since you get Barkskin to cover natural armor and get a powerful at-will combat boost without strings.
Strength Patron Witch is a very interesting choice, since they can get free claws and even hair attacks, colossal buffs (Divine Favor and maybe Power, Heroism, Arcane Strike, possibly Frostbite), and by around 8/9 they can start using Synergist Pounce or Dimensional Dervish.
I really wasn't looking to do a full caster, however, witch does look yummy. To be clear I don't mind having spells, I just don't want spells to be a primary function necessarily.
That opens up the possibility of the hexcrafter magus too.
Hmm, guide is like a bigger but more limited fortune finder in this case.
The really crazy thing with Witch is that a Strength Patron Synergist Witch 8 with Improved Familiar: Sylvanshee gets inherent Pounce by level 8 along with Divine Power and Fly 60(good), and I'm pretty sure it's all PFS legit. The fact that round 1 is typically buffing doesn't hurt so much when round 2+ is flying Divine Power Arcane Strike Pounce. Being a -4BAB character is surprisingly unconcerning when you're making a slew of natural attacks with huge buffs; so for a combat Witch like that, casting can be left as a side-note.
The problem I am running into with witch is the nails hex is secondary natural weapons, meaning a -5 to hit and half damage.
The problem I am running into with witch is the nails hex is secondary natural weapons, meaning a -5 to hit and half damage.
I'll be damned. I've only ever used them as a secondary combo'd with weapon stuff, so I completely forgot. Same with Hair... though nobody else gets hair attacks, so free is free I guess.
Well if going for a combat Witch it's probably ideal to do the 'one level of Urban Bloodrager and some Extra Rage' thing anyhow. Furious is extremely useful on an Amulet of Mighty Fists (especially if using Agile), and bonus ability score is heavenly whether using STR or DEX. So in that case, just use a claws-based bloodline. Nails can be taken as a backup when not raging. And of course, the long-term benefit of a martial level is that once you've got everything you want from Witch, the higher levels can use Eldritch Knight to preserve BAB.
Two levels of Bloodrager would allow mad magic as a feat option too for the witch.
But I am rather feeling the Savage side of magic and trickery...
While normally I am not a huge fan of it the Eldritch Scion would allow the bloodline and do more direct magic.
Mad Magic is available as long as you have the Bloodrage class feature, as far as I know. The usefulness of Mad Magic is debatable though when you have a character who typically uses magic for buffs or an opener and then starts shredding. Mad Magic is irrelevant unless you actually want to turn on rage to attack something, then cast a spell instead of attacking while still in rage.
As far as Eldritch Scion goes, I don't think Magus setup is very friendly to multiple natural attacks, especially with Eldritch Scion draining Arcane Pool just to work. Not something I've looked at much though. One of the biggest advantages of Witch is that Divine Favor/Power is adding a big attack and damage bonus across any weapon you use. A natural attacks Witch can also eventually mimic Spellstrike with Quickenened Frostbite as a level 4 spell.
If you want 'savage trickery' with natural attacks, you could always look at using a Sneak Attack + Dazzling Blade build, with Sense Vitals as your main combat buff. Some kind of Arcane Trickster thing maybe.
Yeah, not feeling witch though, the natural attack on magus is painful but possible with a significant investment if I want to spell combat (and why would you not want spell combat), I simply like the options mad magic provides, however it again points to more of a caster and worked better with the old scarred witch doctor...
The fiend keeper medium could be a fun way to get to the natural attacks (if later) and is tasteful, if potential painful.
Totem bonded hunter can get there too.
Lion totem druid has claw access
Lion totem druid has claw access
Not to mention access to Divine Favor through Nobility Domain.
There's also Nature Fang Druid, as they can take Aspect of the Beast through Slayer Talents, and they gain Study and Sneak Attack. It's annoying that they have to wait for level 9 to use Study as a swift action, but I think Lenses of the Predator solves that.
Druid in general also works nicely for Frostbite hijinks.
Edit: oh yeah, and Urban Druid has at-will Alter Self, so claws are easy for them. Plus a nice stat bonus, and spontaneous Divine Favor through Nobility Domain.
At will alter self at sixth, but Slayer talents including aspect of the beast was something I missed too.
4th level for aspect, but that's not too horrific... I have a boon to start at second.
I think we are down to four now;
1. Druid (lion totem or nature fang)
Lots of magic, wild shape fun possibilities, 4 natural attacks. Oni spirit master might be hard to justify.
2. Ranger (fortune finder Nirmathi irregular)
Natural attacks early, lots of skill points, ability to focus (weakly) in any territory, plenty of skill bonuses, more magic than normal ranger.
3. Slayer
Natural attacks at level 2, trapfinding at 4, plenty of BAB, two good saves, sneak attack for damage boosting too.
4. Bloodrager
Natural attacks through bloodline, limited use, could allow for "battle modes" sort of action, which is tasty fluff. Faster movement, urban would allow dex boosting. Furious agile amulet would be fairly cheap for bang to buck ratio.
Dex build would require amulet.
Druid build could use strength boosts and spells to overcome lack of inherent bonus.
Slayer has sneak attack to add in.
Ranger has less direct bonuses but has some spells when it starts to matter.
Just to throw something else out there... what about (I know, but hear me out) mixing Improved Two-Weapon Feint and TWF with bite and gore on a Slayer with one level of a Rage class? With the Deceptive Ranger Style you can pick up Two-Weapon Feint and Greater Feint, paving the way for every attack to have Sneak Attack damage and break enemy DEX. While attacks are going to be weaker on a baseline, the combination of 'guaranteed' Sneak Attack and Study Target plus all the extras is pretty damaging; and if you use a double weapon like the weighted spear, you can two-hand all standard attacks. Equipment-wise, a Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes is enough when it only applies to two strikes. And you don't need to use Bloodrager claws, so you can run whatever Rage thing you want to; potentially even Urban Id Rager for the +6STR. I don't know overall how favorably it all works out, but it's a pretty cool concept...
It is. The natural attacks is however pretty key to the character concept. Couple of notes I just realized while I was double checking everything: Fiend keeper is race locked, as is fortune finder, which pushes me back to guide (as you suggested) for ranger.
some combination of bloodrager (or other raging class) with slayer could work.
Also I missed it on first pass but the natural spell combat is out too for magus.
Hmm... does the Deceptive Style Slayer thing I mentioned work for your concept if you're using claw, bite and gore while using unarmed TWFeint? Full attack becomes a ferocious fist-to-claw feinting kung-fu thing. Seems kinda right for someone in an oni mask.
It's something I am looking at. My initial concern is covering the basic concept (Kitsune natural attacker, fairly Savage).
I think two levels Slayer or guide ranger works that and from there I can step out more.
I am liking the Slayer more I look at it. Sneak attack would be nice.
I think the one problem you're going to run into with this build is that all of your natural attacks are sort of small for their level—you'll be looking at d4 weapon damage with all of them. (Kitsune bite is a d4, Aspect of the Beast is a d4, and Spirit Mask is a d4.) That's going to make some combination of bonus damage really crucial to your build.
Have you considered going slayer 2 / ninja X? The 10th-level ability to go invisible as per greater invisibility would probably be pretty helpful to your build, and you could nab an agile amulet of mighty fists to go Dex to damage. Plus your slayer studied target ability would work off of your ninja sneak attack dice, and you could pick up Accomplished Sneak Attacker to grab the sneak attack damage die you lost. As your 12th-level talent, you could even use the rogue talent that gives you a stalker vigilante talent to pick up cunning feint, which would help you feint foes that can see invisibility.
I was already planning on accomplished sneak attacker. I do agree that bonus damage is where it will be at, so I typically don't sweat weapon dice size.
I had considered ninja for follow up, but I haven't locked it exactly what I want to go to next.
Trying to not get too trickster like, he'll use dirty tricks but mostly he is there to wreck face.
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Quick Dirty Trick is another excellent way to 'lock-in' Sneak Attacks. Ninja and Rogue gain access to the Underhanded Trick Talent, which is really fantastic for Dirty Trick builds - no removal of blindness allowed on the first round (!). And you only really need Ninja or Rogue 2 for that. Ninja 2 also opens up bonus Ki attacks, so you can replace the attack lost on Quick Dirty Trick with another. If crossing Ninja with a martial class, you can still grab Quick Dirty Trick by level 7. Now I'm picturing blinding someone with magic oni mask horns...
Edit: and that makes me think of the Scarred Rager Rage Cycle thing with Elemental Rage. Charge yourself with electrical damage, and then face-butt the target's face with your mask, sending electricity crackling into their eyes. That'll teach them.
Ninja does look like a nice follow up.
It really comes down to what I do with my stats, and first level feat.
Thoughts?
Right now I am solid with Slayer 2 (third level will be Slayer for that first sneak attack die), then I will probably go with either ninja, or something with rage.
A third way to run aggressive Sneak damage would be to go with some kind of Dazzling Blade setup using Exploiter Wizard and Arcane Trickster crossed with claws and one starting sneak die. Bloodrager 1 and Snakebite Brawler 1 maybe. Exploiter Wizard can quickly put out some mean Dazzling Blade for swift-action blinding, and Heroism rescues attack bonus as things start to sour on BAB. Dazzling Blade requires a metal weapon, but you don't have to attack with it; so just some shiny mundane armor spikes or whatever works fine. Using Magical Lineage or Wayang, you can start throwing Persistent Dazzling Blade with +2DC from Exploiter at level 3 Wizard, and Kitsune can be INT bonus instead of CHA. Instead of needing to make combat maneuvers work and sacrificing an attack, you just throw really aggressive swift blinds. At high levels, you can move right into EK if you want to preserve BAB.
Really not wanting the arcane trickster, I play casters all the time, taking a step back from primary caster builds.
So a dip might make sense, I am not looking for arcane trickster.
Fair enough.
Well, the easiest way to Quick Dirty Trick and claw strikes is probably to go Bloodrager 1 for the claws and rage, and then go Underhanded Style Slayer for easy access to Dirty Trick stuff. Focusing on Slayer means Study, bonus feats and sneak dice all progress together.