
Taperat |
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I've been working up a couple of character sheets, one for SFS and one for a home game, and I've come to an interesting conclusion: the +1 to an ability score you get from your theme means very little. Since point buy is a flat rate, 1 to 1, your theme's bonus ensures that you will end up with at least 1 odd score, which as we know ends up having the same modifier as the even score value below it.
This would all be fine, except for the interesting way ability score increases work. Since they are +2 for scores 16 and below, and +1 for scores 17 and above, it takes exactly the same amount of ability score increases to reach a score of 18 in a stat for any given modifier. For example, scores that give a +3 modifier, 16 and 17, take 1 ability score increase to get to 18, while scores that give +1, 12 and 13, take 3 increases.
If we were working off the old point buy method, the +1 from your theme would be invaluable, but as it stands it seems to me to not have much in-game effect, save for effects that actually lower an ability score (do those exist?), or times when you need a certain score to qualify for something, such as the 13 strength needed for the Cleave feat. Has anyone else noticed this? Am I totally off base? I'd appreciate any thoughts on this.

Porridge |

There's a thread discussing this:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uji1?Theme-ability-points-dont-actually-do-any thing
Basically, the consensus is that yeah, the odd ability score point isn't very useful, though it has some fringe benefits, like meeting odd ability score feat requirements. And it's a potential way to add some flavor to your character.
To look at it from a design perspective, if you want the power level of PCs to be about 12pts, and a 13pt buy is virtually equivalent, which point buy should you let players use? 12 pts or 13 pts? Since 13 pts has some fringe benefits, and adds a little flavor, why not go with 13?

Taperat |

Thanks, I knew I couldn't have been the first person to notice this but I couldn't find a thread talking about it. I agree it's fine as it is, just led me to an odd moment of fridge logic. It forces you to prioritize the interesting parts of your theme, rather than taking the one that gives you the mechanically best attribute benefit.

HWalsh |
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All feats that have an ability score requirement have an odd requirement.
Cleave - Str 13
Great Cleave - Str 13
Connection Inkling - Wis 15
Heavy Armor Proficiency - Str 13
Powered Armor Proficiency - Str 13
Minor Psychic Power - Cha 11
Psychic Power - Cha 13
Major Psychic Power - Cha 15
Mobility - Dex 13
Agile Casting - Dex 15
Parting Shot - Dex 15
Shot on the Run - Dex 15
Sidestep - Dex 15
Improved Sidestep - Dex 17
Spring Attack - Dex 15
Nimble Moves - Dex 15
Slippery Shooter - Dex 15
Heavy Weapon Proficiency - Str 13
Step Up and Strike - Dex 13
Technomantic Dabbler - Int 15
Veiled Threat - Cha 15
Want to be proficient in Heavy Armor? Do you really want to spend 3 creation points on it? You can take Mercenary and simply name Strength as one of your Level 5 choices. Boom. You qualify.
Sure, some of these you get anyway. If you are going to have heavy weapons you are going to want a high dex for the to-hit. If you are a melee guy though, Step up and Strike costs 1 level up and 1 theme.
You *really* have to get out of the Pathfinder way of thinking for Starfinder. It isn't Pathfinder. It has it's own system and it's own way of optimizing.

HWalsh |
plenty of uses, just not necessarily traditional ones.
Well... Like, look at it this way...
Okay, you can get a stat array that looks like this to start with:
16, 16, 12, 10, 10, 9
By level 5 it can look like this:
18, 18, 14, 12, 10, 9
By level 10:
18, 18, 16, 14, 12, 11
15:
18, 18, 18, 16, 14, 13
20:
18, 18, 18, 18, 16, 15
With enhancements?
24, 22, 20, 18, 16, 15
That's exactly 2 +1's off of "maximized" my "optimized" max bonus build has exactly +1 more plus in strength and one more plus in charisma, but would give so much more health and skill points...
In Pathfinder such a spread out build would be stupid. In Starfinder... Maybe not.
We need to take a long hard look at Starfinder in a vacuum. Stop looking through a Pathfinder lens.

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claudekennilol wrote:I haven't done any math and this is just my assumption...but I assume it would make a difference in a game where you're only playing to level 11-14 until the campaign ends.That's over 90% of all campaigns. It's reallllllllllllly rare a game goes above 15
That's basically my point. All this theory crafting is being done to show that "this is useless at 20", well, all that theory crafting is basically useless because the "level 20 play" is just theory crafting. Obviously that's exaggeration/hyperbole, but it proves my point.

HWalsh |
HWalsh wrote:That's basically my point. All this theory crafting is being done to show that "this is useless at 20", well, all that theory crafting is basically useless because the "level 20 play" is just theory crafting. Obviously that's exaggeration/hyperbole, but it proves my point.claudekennilol wrote:I haven't done any math and this is just my assumption...but I assume it would make a difference in a game where you're only playing to level 11-14 until the campaign ends.That's over 90% of all campaigns. It's reallllllllllllly rare a game goes above 15
That's why I theory craft in 5 level increments. The build has to work at any level I'm playing it.

Voss |

But in your example, the +1 still doesn't do anything. The +2 to 4 does a lot, but the theme bonus is just a useless rider on whatever your worst stat is.
You're qualifying for the odd feats through the even advances, which seems pretty sensible anyway. If you're bothering to grab those feats, you might as well do something with those stats.

HWalsh |
But in your example, the +1 still doesn't do anything. The +2 to 4 does a lot, but the theme bonus is just a useless rider on whatever your worst stat is.
You're qualifying for the odd feats through the even advances, which seems pretty sensible anyway. If you're bothering to grab those feats, you might as well do something with those stats.
Not really. Depends on the stat/feat.
Powered Armor, for example replaces your strength score completely. You don't need it. Literally.
Nimble Moves, Step up and strike, and Spring Attack are all for movement, which doesn't interact with Dex.